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Carthage, are they an effective civ?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by formivore, Jun 22, 2012.

  1. formivore

    formivore Chieftain

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    I enjoy Carthage quite a bit, but was wondering if people found them to be an effective civ?

    They seem to have the Greek syndrome. Their UU's are ancient + classical and seem strong on paper, but suffer from not being part of a decisive strategy (read: rushing fools). Has anyone been able to use either the quinquireme or the elephants in a conquest strategy? The quinquireme in particular is a great unit (45 hammers for an ancient strength 13?), but it's unlikely that you will find good target cities for it early in the game when it is viable. The one good use I've found for it is to jack up your military rating and then go on a CS shakedown world cruise, which I guess isn't bad.

    The UA is nice though and leads to a fun playstyle, so I want to like Dido.

    I was always a shameless Great Lighthouse player in CIV. There's something really fun about building a coastal empire; I feel that you experience the geography in a richer way. One of my big disappointments with CiV is that coastal cities are still uncompetitive with inland cities due to the extra infrastructure it demands. Carth's free harbors do push them over this tipping point, so you get to return to a completely different empire building style.
     
  2. Halcyan2

    Halcyan2 Emperor

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    I love crossing mountains! It's like having access to a super secret shortcut that only the Carthaginians can use!

    (While free Harbors is definitely very strong, I'd play Carthage even if their UA was just mountain crossing!).
     
  3. Zak61099

    Zak61099 Chieftain

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    I love founding cities in mountains!
     
  4. Lance of Llanwy

    Lance of Llanwy King

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    Quinquiremes dominate the seas for quite a long time and allow you to easily capture coastal cities. I was able to take a small coastal city from Suleiman defended by an archer and a catapult with just five(darting in and out). It was across a bay from me, so the quinquiremes allowed me to forego marching a land army all the way around the bay just to attack it. And they're really cheap to build. War elephants are just strong, and also have the benefit of not requiring resources to field. That means you can deploy a very strong classical army without iron or horses, which is a definite advantage. And no one needs to expound upon how great free harbors in every city are.
    I'd say Carthage is a pretty strong civ as long as you're not playing Pangaea or some map without oceans.
     
  5. ptoss1

    ptoss1 King

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    African Forest Elephants are strong, but I've gotten workers killed on Autopilot due to attrition while passing mountains. They really need to fix that.
     
  6. firstconsul

    firstconsul Chieftain

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    Carthage is not going to be special for domination. I'm in the middle of a domination game with Carth, and have not been able to decisively conquer my continent. Main problem is there relative weakness against cities that aren't on the coast. On the other hand, I feel like the free harbors can make a coastal wide empire effective. Not sure what VC to pursue with Dido.
     
  7. formivore

    formivore Chieftain

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    Yeah I agree. They seem best suited for a science victory with settling and some conquest on the side. The question is whether this is an effective strategy in general in G&K. Your have to settle cities yourself in order to get the most out of your UA, and the settler rush comes at the same time as your UUs - which do you focus on? Maybe the trick is to do both but ignore other things like building wonders. They hybrid playstyle make them fun to play, but I fear it will also be what makes them not super effective once all the broken strategies come out.
     
  8. emblemfire

    emblemfire Chieftain

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    Wait! they can actually do that!!!!

    I should give them a shot then...
     
  9. Halcyan2

    Halcyan2 Emperor

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    Well, you would think that mountain crossing would be a significant advantage in a domination game. Lets you attack or position yourself in ways that no other civ can. Alternatively, it can just save you time by allowing you to take shortcuts. I can't recall the number of times in non-Carthage games where I am exploring and end up in a deadend blocked off by mountains. Not a problem with Dido! :)
     
  10. Pouakai

    Pouakai It belongs in a museum. Moderator

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    I've been playing as them on Archipelago... it's insane. With Messengers of the Gods and Commerce (Can't remember which one it is) and another belief, a city automatically gives +2 Science, +1 Happiness and +1 Gold when founded
     
  11. MadDjinn

    MadDjinn Deity

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    you get the free harbours in the cities you take as well.
     
  12. formivore

    formivore Chieftain

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    Yeah messenger of the gods makes the UA. It feels like France, you settle new cities and instead of feeling vaguely guilty about it, it's like mmm.... more power. I've been playing on the new Europe mapscript, which is also strong for Dido but perhaps more balanced :lol:.

    I know you get harbors in cities you conquer, but getting good coastal sites is more finicky than inland cities and so it benefits more from settling yourself.

    As an aside I luuuv the Europe script. Here's hoping it becomes the new pangea.
     
  13. IrishBandit

    IrishBandit Chieftain

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    Came in here expecting a discussion about Dido's appearance :crazyeye:
     
  14. Cristoval

    Cristoval Warlord

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    I'd tap that.
     
  15. formivore

    formivore Chieftain

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    Ugh, this thread title was a mistake, I should have know better. Is there a way to change it?
     
  16. Rick80

    Rick80 Chieftain

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    I love Carthago, more for her ability about free harbour that for mountain crossing. You can create a very sea empire, I choosed also the god of sea for them and with new commerce policy I haved a efficient civilization.
     
  17. JanghanHong

    JanghanHong Enrico Trololo

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    I'm calling it now, "CS shakedown world cruise" will be a valid strategy/gambit in G&K. I just wanted to know what to call it, now I know.
     
  18. Slvynn

    Slvynn Duke Vector fon Pixel

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    Carthage is my fav civ and 1st i achieved my emperor victory (science due big world, but i was close to conquest , diplo was off). I agree with idea of them being suited for mixed style play. They are awedome REXers which could benefit from few pantheons and beliefs so they should not ignore religion. The thing that they are designed for expansion, rapid one thrue land even mountains and sea, uus are just tools for them to be eell armed during exactky said period of rapid expansion. In my game i also managed to build quite good amount of wonders. They shoul enchance religion asap so they get pagodas etc combined with holy warriors or more happines for more expansion. Commerce sp is obvious choice which combined with hi faith output could provide few more great merchants for capital 3rd ring.
     
  19. ifinnem

    ifinnem Keep it interesting

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    I tried this same strategy and found I had to spread the religion before these kicked in so it wasn't as ideal as I'd hoped.
    Are you saying you got these when founding a city on a far away island immediately?
    How?
     
  20. Slvynn

    Slvynn Duke Vector fon Pixel

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    i did similar thing with missionary attached to settler
     

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