Carthage?

[Capt Ajax]

Where o' Where is my beautiful city of Carthage? This is so sad......I wonder if there is any chance of a future upgrade that includes Carthage? Mabe a scenerio that includes Carthage? Does anyone know?

 

[Comrade Pedro]

Thought Carthage was a powerfull potential, its civilization coundn't win the battle agaisnt a bigger civilization, the romans. In spite of that, Carthage should be presented with that gift of having the presence of its civilization of civ4, because of its influence through other civilizations of the mediterraean sea.

 

[apatheist]

I'd rather have the Phoenecians than Carthage. Or, rather, have both of them together as a single civilization.

Thought Carthage was a powerfull potential, its civilization coundn't win the battle agaisnt a bigger civilization, the romans.

How many civilizations didn't get beaten by another one?

 

[Gr3yL3gion]

They should have been included in the place of the Romans.

Romans belong to the expansion pack.

 

[Sub]

Carthage was my favorite Civilization in the game. I would pretty much only use them in Civ 2 and did the same in Civ 3. I don't know, they better be in an expansion atleast.

 

[lost_civantares]

They should have been included in the place of the Romans.

Romans belong to the expansion pack.

Although Carthage was great for its time, Rome definitly takes precidence. For one thing Rome lasted much longer and spread much farther ultamatly (allthough, yes, Carthage did get pretty big for the time). In additon Rome had a ton more impact on the world. Consider this, we are speaking here in English, a language based, at least partually, on Latin. We have people here from France, where their language was from, direcly, latin. Architecture was advanced a lot because of the Romans (think of the arch, the aquaducts and so on), we could go on here for ages with what the Romans did, but what did the Carthaginians do? In all honesty, not to much aside from Hannibal's march over the alps and his dominence over Italy (which was totally due to him, Carthage just abandoned him for 13 years, sent him a couple elephants and some men who were promply killed off by the Romans, forcing Hannibal to eventually give up) and Carthage's great underground water storage tanks and the temple to Moloch above it. Not much if you ask me.

So yes, they should be included, but not at the cost of Rome.

 

[hiiamyourfather]

carthage was the first civilization i played with. they should have been included in civ 4.

 

[Princeps]

Not Carthage... The Phoenicans instead.

 

[Dark Khan]

The Phoenicans must be in.They are the greatest merchants ever i think they deserve respect for that

 

[Princeps]

The Phoenicans must be in.They are the greatest merchants ever i think they deserve respect for that

Carthaginians were Phoenicans.

 

[Depravo]

They don't make the top 18 IMO but they're definite expansion material, like Babylon.

 

[Capt Ajax]

what did the Carthaginians do?

Simply put.........they made Rome great.

 

[Capt Ajax]

Carthaginians were Phoenicans.

Nope not entirely true. They may be rooted in Phoenican society, just as the Americans were rooted in european society, but they developed their own path in history and called the city at the center of their civilization "Carthage".............had a "Cathaginian" army and navy and the population considered themselves to be Cathaginians from the great city state of Carthage. Why would we take that away from them by calling them Phoenicans?

In summary:

Are all Phoenicans Cathaginians..............NO! This is why they desearve thier spotlight......if not for the Carthaginians the Phoenicans would not even be considered.

 

[Fox Mccloud]

We need Carthage so Rome can beat them!

 

[Fox Mccloud]

Damn! I acsidentaly said Yes! I wanted to say No, they shouldv' been in! Can a mod delete that?

 

[Xen]

Thought Carthage was a powerfull potential, its civilization coundn't win the battle agaisnt a bigger civilization, the romans. In spite of that, Carthage should be presented with that gift of having the presence of its civilization of civ4, because of its influence through other civilizations of the mediterraean sea.

1)at the outset of the first Punic war, it was Carthage that was the larger power; indeed, the outset was the same at the second Punic war, and Carthage went into that particuler war with an army better honed then the Romans would feild until After Scipio Africanus' camapigns in Spain

2)the onyl influcence Carthage had was that almost every one hated them; it was onyl fear of the Romans that lead a possible alliance between Carthage and Macedon to, theoretically occur, but otherwise sources are very clear; the Carthaginians were dispised.

3)this influence was entirelly limited to trade; the Carthaginians made no significant contributions to culture or technology, and many regard the Roman crushing of Carthaginian practice of child sacrafice as a good thing.

 

[Crayton]

Vienna is as German, as Carthage is Punic.
I'm for Germans(not Germany) and Phoneicians(not Carthage).

 

[Xen]

well, in all fairness, Vienna was founded by the Romans, is a Roman catholic city, in terms of dominant religion, is in an area of dense Roman colonization....

while Carthage is just the champion fo the Punic colonies.

 

[Capt Ajax]

Vienna is as German, as Carthage is Punic.
I'm for Germans(not Germany) and Phoneicians(not Carthage).

I agree Crayton, however, I am for Carthaginians, not Phoneicians. As far as child sacrifice is concerned, I don't believe it would be such a big deal

and many regard the Roman crushing of Carthaginian practice of child sacrafice as a good thing.

There are an estimated 1.3 milion abortions in the USA every year and our society rolls along just fine. NOW JUST IMAGINE IF WE WERE SACRIFICING THEM TO THE GODS FOR OUR OWN ECONOMIC PROSPERITY????
The end result, (loss of life) would be the same, AND I would probably be able to get better financing on my house

 

[Xen]

There are an estimated 1.3 milion abortions in the USA every year and our society rolls along just fine. NOW JUST IMAGINE IF WE WERE SACRIFICING THEM TO THE GODS FOR OUR OWN ECONOMIC PROSPERITY????
The end result, (loss of life) would be the same, AND I would probably be able to get better financing on my house

that is perhaps the single most absurd line of reasoning I have ever seen.

Abortion is one thing;the baby is unborn, it hasnt truelly lived- taking a 5 year old and cutting his throat in the name of Ba-al is a different story entirelly- and altogether a more cruel and barbaric affair, anyway you want to look at it. The Romans likelly did all the world a favor when they stamped out Carthage all together.