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Caste society civic question

Discussion in 'Rise of Mankind: A New Dawn' started by xtended2l, Feb 22, 2019.

  1. xtended2l

    xtended2l Chieftain

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    Is it fine that when I change "Caste" society civic to anything else, all my specialists change from +1 food to -1?

    With Caste:


    Then we change from this to anything else:


    Without Caste:


    Isn't it supposed to be 0 food without Caste? Or am I miss something?
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2019
  2. xtended2l

    xtended2l Chieftain

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    Just a little addition - not all specialists. Priests revert fine from 0 to +1 food and back. So it is true for all except priests.
     
  3. robbyextreme

    robbyextreme Warlord

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    Seems like a bug? can't comment on that but if you want a temporary fix you can go into Assets\XML\GameInfo\CIV4CivicInfos.xml and change the values under line 2927. Just backup the file first at least you wont have to start a new game.
     
  4. xtended2l

    xtended2l Chieftain

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    Thanks mate, it works. I changed all 100's to 0 and now caste doesnt give bonus to specialist's food, and food isnt subtracted when I change from caste. So yeah it is fine as a temporary solution. Thanks again.
     
  5. zeroRPGmaker

    zeroRPGmaker Chieftain

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    Ooo... sounds like a nasty bug.
     
  6. 45°38'N-13°47'E

    45°38'N-13°47'E Deity

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    Just wonder...
    I remember there was a bug when switching out of caste; as a workaround, months ago, I added in the code a forced recalc each time someone switches out of caste. For some reason, this isn't working properly, it seems. Recalculating again (ctrl+shift+t) solves the problem of the -1 food
     
  7. xtended2l

    xtended2l Chieftain

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    Good to know. I'll give it a try.
     
  8. HorseshoeHermit

    HorseshoeHermit 20% accurate as usual, Morty

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    Is this actually causing -1 food, or just saying that it is?

    I'm poking around the code base now. Trouble is, one would really have to find every method call that does any writing of a tooltip string for specialists, to check that its logic is valid. But the only way to chart the codebase is to work "up" from the function written to transmit the value for +1 food from the civic data. So you don't end up ever knowing that you found the text responsible for the surrounding behaviour.

    There's oodles of disparate locations in the source for the instructions to build these tooltips.... Maintaining c++ is only trying to get lucky. :sad:

    edit: anyway, I'm 80% sure the problem is in CvPlayer::changeSpecialistYieldPercentChanges(SpecialistTypes, YieldTypes, int)

    It double processes player specialist modifiers, is Inappropriately Intimate with CvCity (but that seems to be the name of the game, in c++), and has plenty of abuses of variable naming that could very well conceal a logic error.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2019
  9. xtended2l

    xtended2l Chieftain

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    I dont know if it is for real or just display issues, but after reclculating several times for me and my wife(we are playing LAN game), I jumped from +100 to -1200 gold per turn :lol:
    But at least now everything is fine with specilaists :)
     
  10. Pepo

    Pepo Prince

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    Yeah calculations sometimes go mad in the mod. With food for example you can sometimes get it from thin air. It also doesn't seem to calculate corporations resources outputs correctly
     
  11. Slarki

    Slarki Warlord

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    does anyone know if this is the same in multiplayer? Which calculation does it take then or will it just desync?
     
  12. rtt4a

    rtt4a Prince

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    Cant confirm MP but personally i dont use recalc ever because usually it destroys game.. it messes up many things in my experience, gold, sciense etc..
     
  13. 45°38'N-13°47'E

    45°38'N-13°47'E Deity

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    Just wonder...
    @HorseshoeHermit it's not just a display glitch, it really counts as - 1 food.

    The bug is the same in MP as calculations are the same. If you both recalc (one at the time) the game should stay in sync (will oos briefly and then resync).

    @rtt4a if there's such a huge difference most probably the calc error was before recalc, not after. There's a known bug I haven’t solved yet where for some reason some resources are counted twice.
     
  14. black213

    black213 Emperor

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    On a related note, isn't Caste OP as it is right now? Unlimited scientists so early on?
     
  15. IPEX-731BA5DD06

    IPEX-731BA5DD06 Deity

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    you've still got to feed them, and you need the population to 'spawn' them in 'unlimited' numbers.
     
  16. HorseshoeHermit

    HorseshoeHermit 20% accurate as usual, Morty

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    ok that helps

    I'll be testing.... but.... procrastination...
     
  17. robbyextreme

    robbyextreme Warlord

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    If Caste offered unlimited Engineers I agree it would be OP but they don't. Hammers are a lot better early game than science beakers.
     
  18. philipschall

    philipschall Warlord

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    With Angkor Wat, you can essentially get unlimited engineers. I'd argue that caste is kinda strong in the early game, and absolutely dominant in the late game. When you have a few +%Food buildings, you can increase the amount of food each specialist produces. So if each specialist produces 1.5 food, then two specialists can total 3.5 specialists. If your city is already working all available tiles, then no civ can beat your pop number and the bonuses they provide.
     
  19. Vokarya

    Vokarya Deity

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    I am not opposed to making changes to Caste. I would like to know, for the players who are really exploiting this, at what point does the unlimited specialists become a problem and how many specialists can you run at that time? I feel Caste needs a little something more than just unlimited specialists. Unlimited specialists looks great in theory but if you can't fill all the specialist slots that you get from buildings, then that benefit is meaningless. There are two things that I think make it harder for unlimited specialists to be civic-worthy on its own.
    • Citizens in AND eat 3 food/turn rather than 2. This makes it harder to support specialists until Food-producing buildings kick in.
    • AND is more generous with specialist slots from buildings.
      • In BTS, you generally have one early building that grants specialist slots (Theatre, Library, Forge, Market, Courthouse) and then one or two buildings in the late game. Priest is instead limited by how many religions can spread to the city (you get one Priest per religion from Temple). The game maxes out at 4-5 slots of each Specialist.
      • I designed AND to give 1 specialist slot from buildings per era up to the Renaissance, and then 2 per era beyond that. By the end of the Industrial Era, you are looking at 6 slots of each specialist type, and 10 by the very end of the game.
     
  20. Zeta Nexus

    Zeta Nexus Deity

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    For this reason I changed the +1:food: to +1:commerce: in my version. After all caste system is NOT about food production. Overcrowded India is only one example for caste but other caste societies don't have that high population.
     

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