Caster Semenya - Man, Woman, or Neither?

[Yared]

Man or Woman, who wouldn't want someone like that for protection? (mischief)

 

[Squonk]

also, she's just another proof for my claims that women and men should compete together.

 

[Holycannoli]

Gender is far from binary of course, but even sex itself can't quite be shoehorned neatly. Incidentally, even if the IAAF rules that she can't compete as a woman, that doesn't change the fact that she self-identifies as such and should therefore still be considered a woman.

Well a guy who self identifies as a woman should not be allowed to compete in women's events. An intersex person should though.

If only there was a way to visually verify whether a person was a man or a woman... something obvious that would stick out... perhaps if you looked in a particular direction like, oh let's say, down.

I googled "ambiguous genitalia" images a little while ago, and believe me in some cases you simply cannot tell what sex a person is. I dare you to look it up in google images

 

[Leonel]

Oh pish n' tish amiguous genitalia! If you can have babies, yer a woman! If you can't, yer a man!

 

[Yared]

Isn't it possible to have both testicles and a womb mashed together in there?

 

[Holycannoli]

Oh pish n' tish amiguous genitalia! If you can have babies, yer a woman! If you can't, yer a man!

That's a simplified version that I know people will contest with great insights such as "well what about a medical condition or hysterectomy?" but yeah I agree. Do you have what it takes to have a baby, in working condition or not?

 

[Zulu Impi]

I think that due to 1 the birth certificate 2 her own admission and 3 her family you have to back her sure maybe you do a private physical or whatever but this whole circus is just ruining her life and for what winning?

Really feel bad for her to be honest...

 

[Imrahil91]

A loop-hole to win more medals in sporting events. Maybe someone like North-Korea will cut off their male athletes' penises to win more honor in the Olympics now.

 

[Yared]

A loop-hole to win more medals in sporting events. Maybe someone like North-Korea will cut off their male athletes' penises to win more honor in the Olympics now.

China. And I'm sure they could find some eunuchs with their huge pop.

 

[classical_hero]

She looks very much like a man.

 

[El_Machinae]

Okay, a little bit of simple vocabulary.

Gender tends to be binary: your gender is a societal construct. We tend to think of people as either male or female, and we slot people into those two categories due to a number of factors (well, usually just one). This is a traditional system of heuristics, but it's not to be relied upon.

Sex is biological: it is not binary. Determining sex is not an easy thing, because there are more than one indicator of a sex. We can use chromosomes, gonads, reproductive equipment, & genitalia. These thing do not need to match, they often don't (given the number of people on the planet). In biology, we tend to use the size of the gametes as our label: the larger gamete (the egg) is the female of the species)

It's important to remember that sometimes tradition is wrong, and sometimes labels are inappropriate.

 

[Catharsis]

Isn't it possible to have both testicles and a womb mashed together in there?

Yep. Worst haggis I ever ate.

 

[Agent327]

So the South African middle distance runner Caster Semenya is under suspicion of not being who she says she is. She underwent a sex verification test before the race, but the results remain unpublished.

Because it is a private matter. (Since the verification verified, she is allowed to race. Seems pretty obvious. I guess you missed that bit where the girls' daddy says his litlle girl is a girl. But go ahead, poll away, that'll solve the issue - NOT.)

 

[Miles Teg]

Bah, obviously a fake. Semenya was really born in Kenya!

 

[Valka D'Ur]

To me this individual looks male. I see nothing there, either in simple physiognomy or body language that suggests "female."

That said, this could be one of those cases of odd chromosomes.

Or it could be an unverified (uncaught) case of an athlete being changed through various drugs and training regimens... much like the East German women swimmers and speedskaters in the Olympics.

 

[Perfection]

I DON'T KNOW!

 

[innonimatu]

The whole thing is really funny as the event which caused the polemic is a kind of "sexually inadequacy compensation" competition between "countries"... I mean, what's the point, and the interest, in knowing who runs faster a given distance, on organizing it for men and for women separately, on having them "represent countries", etc?

 

[Leonel]

Bah, obviously a fake. Semenya was really born in Kenya!

Where's South Africa's birth certificate?!

 

[MagisterCultuum]

It looks to me like she was probably at least on steroids if not actually male.

 

[JollyRoger]

A woman that even Ted Haggard could stay faithful to.