1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Cataphracts BC

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by lasombra1984, Apr 27, 2010.

  1. lasombra1984

    lasombra1984 Prince

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2010
    Messages:
    315
    Location:
    Kiev
    Reading enough guids about playing Justinian of Byzantines I've made one way to get Guilds about 300 BC.
    Difficulty - Prince, Speed - Marathon
    You may call me a cheater but I have one option on:
    Random seed on reload
    You regenerate map to start with stone & grain/rice/wheat within city's fatcross.

    Phase 1
    Techs: Masonry-Agriculture-Animal Husbendry...
    Buildings: Worker-Warriorx3-Pyramids until happiness cap-Settlerx2
    While teching to AH you explore map with Warrior promoting to Forester 2.
    When you've got AH quickly settle city with Horses. After getting those Horses you may breath lightly.

    Phase 2
    Techs: Mining-Bronze Working-Pottery
    Constantinople: Workerx2-Pyramids-GW
    Thessalonica: Worker
    Adrianople: Worker
    After getting BW you start chopping forest for Pyramids.
    When you finished Pyramids - adopt Representation & Slavery, turn off "Avoid Growth" and start Great Wall in Constantinople. This Wonder is cheap, so 2 chopped forest is enough to finish it.

    Phase 3
    Techs: Polytheism-Priesthood-Writing-Iron Working-Alphabeth
    Constantinople: Chariot rush-Oracle-Forge
    Adrianople&Thessalonica: Granary-Library-Forge
    When you finish Oracle - choose Metal Casing
    After finishing Forge - choose Engineer as specialist for more Great Engeneer points.
    Note: Don't forget about GPP! Within 1 turn before GP spawn - make save. If it is Prophet or Spy - reload for an Engineer

    Phase 4
    After Alphabeth you can do whatever you want with your tech way with little exception:
    You must get Monarchy to open Feudalism.
    Yor first GE will help you with Machinery, your second GE - with Feudalism
    It's forbidden to start Construction before you've got Feudalism, because Engineering has higher priority for GE.
    About 500 BC you will be able to start Guilds.
    1. Make sure that each city has Library & Forge
    2. Make sure that each city has Longbowman or two.
    3. Turn on "Build Research" in all cities & start Guilds

    Phase 5
    When you have Guilds you'll need siege, aren't you?
    Quickly discover (or trade) Construction
    Make sure that you whipped enough Cataphracts & Catapults.... Destroy them all ;)

    Good Luck

    P.S. Don't forget that building Hanging Gardens is both good for byzantines who really need Health, and for Great Engineer points.
     
  2. bakshi

    bakshi Prince

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2010
    Messages:
    389
    Its not really a strategy if you have to rely on reloads.
     
  3. Udey1

    Udey1 Prince

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2009
    Messages:
    484
    Location:
    Champaign Illinois
    edit.. no time to correct the many errors in this guide.

    apparently last time I corrected you in Leader Guide Justinian you did not listen.
     
  4. Thor7

    Thor7 Warlord

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2009
    Messages:
    108
    If you use oracle to pop fuedalism, which I've done multiple times on monarch level, you can probably research metal casting, machinery and guilds yourself before 1AD, but you will need to backfill a ton of techs. I haven't tried it to see but I think you only need oracle or great people not necessarily both.
     
  5. lasombra1984

    lasombra1984 Prince

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2010
    Messages:
    315
    Location:
    Kiev
    I use Oracle to get Metal Casing.
    GEs for Machinery and Feudalism
     
  6. flashog

    flashog Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2010
    Messages:
    49
    Location:
    Denmark
    Here's an easier cheat: Fire up the world builder.
     
  7. DaveMcW

    DaveMcW Deity

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2002
    Messages:
    6,489
    Who needs cataphracts?

    I could clear my continent with horse archers before 300 BC on Prince.
     
  8. CreeDakota

    CreeDakota King

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2008
    Messages:
    764
    Location:
    Seattle
    Why do you build the Great wall at all in this strat? Especially since you 'reload' any Great Spy anyway?

    Ironic since an espionage game combined with mounting units can be really effective if you use revolts. No slow seige needed at all.
     
  9. David7

    David7 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2010
    Messages:
    62
    My strategy is better:

    1. Change the difficulty to Settler.

    2. Go onto a duel Pangaea map.

    3. Play as Huayna Capac.

    4. Turn on generate new random seed on reload.

    5. Start the game; regenerate if you don't have at least 3 food resources in your BFC.

    6. Enter worldbuilder and give yourself 20 tanks.

    7. Win.
     
  10. Manco Capac

    Manco Capac Friday,13 June,I Collapse

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2010
    Messages:
    8,051


    :lol: You're mean!
     
  11. sakhmet

    sakhmet Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2007
    Messages:
    83
    Location:
    Denmark
    Way to flame a guy.

    I wonder why you need to do this? - Have the age dropped on the forums?
     
  12. Cam_H

    Cam_H Deity

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2005
    Messages:
    4,047
    Location:
    "Straya"
    I'm guessing for the +2:gp: points, and that it's fairly cheap with Stone and chops.

    I've been through this exercise myself of trying to get B.C. Cataphracts, and used the Great Wall for failure cash instead. I was trying to assist noto with his Justinian Comprehensive Leader Guide (this being over two years ago) that in its first incarnations was respectfully quite lacking in some areas, and I felt that some examination of a Cataphract bee-line was at least worth mentioning.

    You make a good point. :)

    I've got to agree, albeit I oppose the suggestion on re-loading myself. lasombra's new to these Forums and I believe endeavouring to make a contribution and stimulate some debate, which should be encouraged.
     
  13. lasombra1984

    lasombra1984 Prince

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2010
    Messages:
    315
    Location:
    Kiev
    If there is an custom option random seed - it may be used) Anyway with such GPP growth build Pyramids+GW+Oracle+Engineer - you get 5 Great Engineer, 2 spy & 2 prophet points.
    It's 55% chance of first Great Engineer birth. And 65% of second if you have built Hanging Gardens in capitol.
    With a good luck you can get 2 GE without those "unfair" reloads.
    Main idea is to get 9 (and later 11) GPP per turn instead of 5(7).

    P.S. Bakshi noted that reloading is not a strategy. I don't argue but... poping-up Feudalism at Monarch difficulty is even less strategy than that.
     
  14. vicawoo

    vicawoo Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2007
    Messages:
    3,226
    You can streamline this and minimize luck if:
    you don't get great wall/use failure gold
    build oracle in a different city, use oracle to get feudalism while getting monarchy
    Don't tech iron working, alphabet (do BTS ge's pop alphabet early?), which cost more monarchy
    bulb machinery

    If you utilize luck, you use a library to run two scientists in your pyramids city and get that great engineer faster. Or you could have two cities running scientists and go academy/ge or ge/academy.
     
  15. lasombra1984

    lasombra1984 Prince

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2010
    Messages:
    315
    Location:
    Kiev
    About scientists.
    Using them gives you 6 GS points. Thus you will have 5 engineer, 2 spy, 2 prophet & 6 scientist points. If you got less than 50% points of GE - this strategy loses sense at all. I'm rightfully annoyed if I get prophet or spy with 55% chance of Engineer, but not when it has only 33%
    As with building other wonders in different cities. I've tried this - Pyramids+Engineer first city, GW in a second city & Oracle in the third... But I've got Guilds only about ~500 AD.
    I'm not sure about Alphabet. I finish (or trade) it before birth of my first GE



    2 DaveMcW
    I am ashamed but I must admit that I still don't got all nuances of espionage( I prefer turning on highest priority at closest military psycho such as Shaka or Stalin but my first victim is usually a shrine-owner
     
  16. vicawoo

    vicawoo Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2007
    Messages:
    3,226
    You only have pyramids in your capital. It takes some time to build a library, over which time your ge points will accumulate, and you can put just enough turns into scientists to give a 50% chance (or whatever you want). There's absolutely no reason to build great wall, especially if you're going to build oracle in your capital (which you should not).

    Don't build for the sake of building. New players think stonehenge is cheap and the great wall is cheap without regarding their opportunity cost. And building research not very useful vs representative scientists.
     
  17. Airey

    Airey Prince

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2008
    Messages:
    464
    While it's true to encourage stimulate debate on alternative methods to play the game. But it's just not going anywhere when OP self justify with this.

    If reloading is part of the strategy, then 33% and 55% is the same.
    It just translates to more reloading time.

    Have to agree with DaveMcW here, with the amount of hammer going into Pyramid and HG, it's just easier to conquer with HAs early and use that land to boost Cataphrats later.
     
  18. lasombra1984

    lasombra1984 Prince

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2010
    Messages:
    315
    Location:
    Kiev
    Reloading is NOT part of strategy. With 55% you'll likely to get 2 GE even without reloading.
    With those scientists you're likely to get GS
     
  19. DampRain

    DampRain Prince

    Joined:
    May 1, 2009
    Messages:
    369
    Actually, without reloading, since you need two GE, you have only slightly above 25% chance of getting both of them. Since 4 possibilities, no GE, 2nd GP is GE, 1st GP is GE, both are GE. With a ~50% chance for getting a GE each time. Or put another way, you have a 75% chance of reloading the game.

    Aside from your reloading and disregarding other strategies, I do like how you are trying to think up ways to achieve your goal of achieving guilds asap.

    I definitely agree with vica that
    Don't build a great wall. It lowers your % chance of a GE and you could put out a settler instead.
     
  20. vicawoo

    vicawoo Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2007
    Messages:
    3,226
    The failure gold is pretty useful though, you'll need it to burn through guilds.

    300 bc is turn 110ish?

    I tried it out my way and got around the same. However, I noticed you said you started researching guilds at 500 BC, which means you tech it in 8 turns normal speed, 24 marathon? That's pretty hard on 3 cities, I got machinery a little before 600 but had trouble getting it by exactly 300. Though it was a small map and I had a far 4th.

    Oracling mc: blah-masonry-mining-bw-med-pri (start oracle in city 2 or 3)-pot-wri (set to 0 and rely on scientists)-mon-iw/alph/ more luck centric. You should set your slider to 0 and slow tech iron working (or alphabet and trade for iron working) and stockpile gold for guilds
    oracling feudalism: wri-med-pri-mon-pot-mc. Note you never get to save money since you have to race for monarchy, then metal casting for the forge. There's much less margin for error since you have to do the feudalism gambit.
    if you go academy for your first great person, you want the libraries before granaries, start oracle in city #3 while getting a fast library in city #2. City #1 has to build pyramids (and chop it) before settler because it has to mass engineer points earlier for the 200 GPP.

    you're manually researching metal casting in exchange for skipping iron working (net -150) less randomness, and possibly an academy.
     

Share This Page