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Catherine of Russia - Who wants to Play?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Harv, Apr 29, 2020.

  1. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

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    The idea is you invade with a tech advantage.
     
  2. 5tephen

    5tephen Warlord

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    Presumably there's a certain amount of finesse to an AP victory? Minimum requirement of 4 missionaries in caravels assuming no failed attempts at religious spread.

    Guess if you meet Saladin in theocracy you'll need some spies too to change him out of theocracy to allow you to spread religion to him? A bunch of guys in free religion would obviously be a different story.

    Wonders won't be at all useful if you go AP though - I'd be interested to see AP victory but conquest/domination very doable.
     
  3. Harv

    Harv Emperor Supporter

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    to Turn 152

    Well, we were beaten to Theocracy by a single turn. It means we have a chance if we hurry.

    I actually never gave that much thought. The other continent likely has a religious nut. Buddhism went pretty quickly.

    We founded another city.
    Spoiler :

    upload_2020-5-11_19-15-3.png


    It might have been okay a long time ago. It has a single food source, but no production. Maybe it will produce some trade.

    What should we do with this Scientist?
    Spoiler :

    upload_2020-5-11_19-9-39.png


    The last one built an Academy in St. Petersburg. Moscow for now might have been as good or better. Another idea might be Golden Age, if we think we are big enough. We don't have Civil Service yet for the Bureaucracy capital. We do have Code of Laws for the Caste System and the place to build more scientists. It would also give us an edge in the race for the Apostolic Palace.
     

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  4. sampsa

    sampsa Ghost

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    Didn't really feel like commenting on every part one by one, since your game has progressed on anyway.

    Opened T152 save. It's not bad, I mean I'm sure you can win it from here. I can see many sub-optimal choices though. You are spamming mediocre and weak buildings (market, temple, courthouse...). I think you've been told a few times already that building wealth and failgolding lead to much better results. Your tech path is also a mess, looks random almost. There are two main lines you could pursue (CS followed by liberalism and optics-astro) but you are not going for either one. It's 840AD already and you are very far from astro/liberalism.

    About the scientist, I'd save for a bulb or a golden age (start at CoL+philo I guess). Academy in a non-cap city is usually a big mistake and I don't see why it'd be different here.
     
  5. Harv

    Harv Emperor Supporter

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    I have been told this, yes. It is something I am going to have to think about for a while - and hit a few more walls.

    With the AP, I thought things like the the monastery will pay off quickly. It's 60 hammers, 40 with a forge + organized religion discount, and yields 2, 2.5 with the forge. The temple is a little more expensive at 80, and adds to the happy cap. However, right now, I do not see too many places that have a problem with happy cap.

    A lot of this is simply short-sightedness, seeing one tech ahead instead of a bunch. With the same short-sightedness, I did not realize that the Vikings were going to research Feudalism and trade with me.

    Spoiler :

    upload_2020-5-11_21-18-17.png


    So far it looks like the meditation helps us the most, in two ways. We finished the Apostolic Palace. That is the first step towards world domination by conversion.

    Spoiler :

    upload_2020-5-11_21-19-23.png



    We founded another city.

    Spoiler :

    upload_2020-5-11_21-20-6.png


    ...and finally we researched Optics.

    What I should do is build two Caravels and have them bring missionaries, correct? Since we are trying to spread our religion?
     

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  6. Harv

    Harv Emperor Supporter

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    The Barrel of Monkeys
    to Turn 176

    We found the other continent!

    Here's Cyrus of Persia.

    Spoiler :

    upload_2020-5-11_22-48-13.png



    Here's Shaka of the Zulu.

    Spoiler :

    upload_2020-5-11_22-48-48.png


    He is locked in a war with Sitting Bull.

    Spoiler :

    upload_2020-5-11_22-49-17.png


    And here's Monty doing the full Monty!

    Spoiler :

    upload_2020-5-11_22-49-56.png


    There is not much tech to be had. How far away from Nationalism are they?

    @dankok8 might have his wish, yet. Two of the four leaders on the other continent are theocratic nutjobs. The other two nutjobs are Monty and Shaka. So far, we managed to get a hold of Shaka.

    Does this mean I might have papal power to end the war between Shaka and Sitting Bull? If Shaka says never, does he get a big unhappiness penalty?
     

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    Last edited: May 11, 2020
  7. Harv

    Harv Emperor Supporter

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    Astronomy
    to Turn 188

    More wonder spam.

    Spoiler :

    upload_2020-5-11_23-59-12.png

    upload_2020-5-11_23-59-24.png

    upload_2020-5-11_23-59-34.png


    We have the religion, so might as well.

    Monty sure loves his stacks!

    Spoiler :

    upload_2020-5-12_0-0-21.png



    Should we bother trying to trade for Engineering? I might check to see who might be a little further behind.

    Spoiler :

    upload_2020-5-12_0-1-12.png



    I have never tried getting a spy to change somebody's civic from Theocracy. Maybe now that Sitting Bull defeated Shaka, he will change.
     

    Attached Files:

  8. Jarno

    Jarno Warlord

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    I think I've seen Lain use the trick by gifting the missionary to an AI which is in Theocracy, and they will spread the religion themselves. If that won't work, I'm sure you can persuade them with some nice juicy techs to change their civics.

    From what I see it seems you enjoy your wonderbuilding so much that you lack the focus to finish this game quickly (although I understand it is satisfying flaunting your tech advantage and watching the other civs smash each others heads in). But for now, let's get it over with! And then... new game, crank up a level, and see if you can apply your newly learnt lessons.
     
    5tephen and sampsa like this.
  9. Qactus

    Qactus Romani ite domum

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    Bismarck's BFC
    Just a quick comment on spreading your religion. In the screenshot I can see 10pop Ulundi with Judaism, yet Shaka is annoyed towards you.
    Don't spread your religion to big cities of your enemies. Choose the smallest city possible (or settle a fresh city, convert it and gift it). Every civ needs to have the AP religion, but you need to maximise votes from your friends and minimize votes from your enemies. And votes depend on the total population in the AP religion (doubled if it is run as a state religion, i.e. for you and Ragnar atm)
     
  10. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

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    Oh I forgot a key point on religious victories. The AI with next biggest spread of the religion becomes your rival. Hence why you now have Vikings as your rival.

    Theocracy is a pain. With Aztecs if you gift a tech and come out of your religion he will be willing to open borders. This will annoy SB who is his worst enemy.

    Even if you gift these missionaries I doubt any of the other continent will vote for you at present. They are all in a different religion to you. Most probably hate you. You would need to spread the religion enough in SB land so Ragnar is no lonnger the rival. Ragnar has about 99 votes. His vote gets doubled as he is in the religion.

    Other option is to vassal Persia and spread your religion to 5-6 cities there. As a vassal he should vote for you. That gets you past 75% mark.

    Sometimes Ap is easy if you have 1-2 vassals. Least you have learned how not to do Ap. Personally I would of tried to reach a tech advantage and then conquer the world.

    Galleons and rifles. Then spread religion to your first vassal.

    You are drifting here and that is not good on Civ 4. How are you planning on winning this?
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2020
  11. Harv

    Harv Emperor Supporter

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    to Turn 232

    Okay, we finally got to the other side of that golden age and slowly moving troops across the pond. I decided to go republic after the golden age, but most likely does not matter. Monarchy would have kept the Vikings friendly.

    Finally, we started a war with the Aztecs.

    Spoiler :

    upload_2020-5-12_23-22-31.png

    upload_2020-5-12_23-22-54.png

    upload_2020-5-12_23-23-3.png

    upload_2020-5-12_23-23-17.png

    upload_2020-5-12_23-23-30.png

    upload_2020-5-12_23-23-43.png



    There's another stack of them waiting for us at Teno.

    Spoiler :


    upload_2020-5-12_23-24-32.png


    ...and I did not think to bring any Cossacks there.

    We can work on smashing them but it might cost some cannons. Or we can just capitulate them and move on to another target.
    They have gone theocracy. So I am supposed to get a missionary to Teno and gift it back to them?

    I figured out why I have not done the chain galleon. I'm really too lazy.
     

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  12. sampsa

    sampsa Ghost

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    Looking nice! :thumbsup: I'd just capitulate everyone asap and move to the next victim. I definitely wouldn't build any buildings from this point on. Also, will any tech beyond physics help you win faster? This is the mindset you should be in.
     
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  13. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

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    Should of used chain galleons. Lazy will cause you a lot more game play! Sittingbull looks like a tough nut to crack here. He has similar number of cities to you. He is a nightmare to vassal. 10/10 for resisting it. Be harder to take down his stack with no losses. He will have a decent stack somewhere. 20-30 units?

    AP is still possible here. Spread jud to all Aztec cities. Try to get him to convert. Mean time capitulate the Persians. Then spread religion here. The big issue is building mish and getting them to front line. Otherwise you will have to fight SB/shaka. Doable but takes time.

    Whipping mish on the 2 captured axtec cities will be possible.
     
  14. Harv

    Harv Emperor Supporter

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    All right, we settled with Monty.

    Spoiler :

    upload_2020-5-13_18-56-55.png


    I decided to start another couple of golden ages and switch to universal suffrage and emancipation. Probably another couple of mistakes. We could have gone Theocracy while at it, but missionaries anywhere would be useful. Wait.....

    Ragnar declared on Cyrus, so we jumped on the bandwagon.

    Spoiler :

    upload_2020-5-13_18-59-2.png

    upload_2020-5-13_18-59-11.png

    upload_2020-5-13_18-59-25.png

    upload_2020-5-13_18-59-33.png


    Hmm. It looks like I took the Jewish city we planted. Oops.
     

    Attached Files:

  15. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

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    Time to finish this off.
    Either spread jud to all Aztec/Persian cities or take a huge stack to SB. I would wait for his stack to appear. You will need 30-40+ units for this. He will have grenadiers so will likely attack your stack. So placing of your stack is important? Any spies?

    Not sure why your teching biology. Sampsa wanted you to switch science off completely. I would want artilery or assembly line to be sure you have a decent tech advantage. Cannons and rifles should be okay. Cossacks can defend against Grenadiers. Albeit artillery is a great unit against any defender he will have here. Infantry would eat up most of his defenders too. You have Shaka to fight through first. Cossacks will be great against cannon stacks.

    Ideally if you can kill 10-20 units with no loss the Ai should cap. Problem is SB has a vassal who will not yield to you. So it will not be that simple. Even with all your units SB is not that far behind on power rating here.

    Your biggest mistake here is not having a killer instinct and going for the kill much sooner. That and spamming buildings. Looks like most cities have banks now.
     
  16. Harv

    Harv Emperor Supporter

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    And we're out of Bubble Gum
    to Turn 250

    Rifles are okay, but lose to Grenadiers even under difficult conditions. Infantry beats everything so far. We're working on Artillery.

    We started the war with Sitting Bull and Sitting Cow, also known as Shaka.

    Spoiler :

    upload_2020-5-13_22-55-38.png

    Sitting Bull's stack showed up pretty quickly.
    upload_2020-5-13_22-56-16.png

    With a stack like this, I thought Tlaxcalagrad was gone, but they seemed bent on going further south. I have no idea why. They could have taken out our beachhead. It doesn't matter now, because we already have vassals.

    Ulundi fell.
    upload_2020-5-13_22-57-49.png

    Then kwadukuzagrad.
    upload_2020-5-13_22-58-16.png

    Then Umungungundlovgrad.
    upload_2020-5-13_22-59-1.png

    This actually opened up Sitting Bull's stack, which chose to be deep behind enemy lines for no idea what reason.
    upload_2020-5-13_22-59-54.png

    The Cossacks wiped out a lot of artillery. That's where they should be attacking.
    upload_2020-5-13_23-0-26.png

    Down to one city, the Zulus realized Sitting Bull was not offering the protection promised.
    upload_2020-5-13_23-0-57.png

    Now, to get a missionary to their remaining city.

    We kept smashing through Sitting Bull cities. We got two of them.
    upload_2020-5-13_23-1-59.png



    16 to go. It will be a bit more of a slog as we press northwards.

    They have Frigates and Ships of the Line. Their Frigates have a Combat promotion, so they are making the seas a rough time. I note that they seem to be able to smell our Galleons. On the other hand, it is too late for them.

    I could not finish tonight. That would have marked two weeks at this game. I might have it done in a couple more days. It depends on if we can sneak in a religious victory, or how far SB is away from capitulating.
     

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  17. 5tephen

    5tephen Warlord

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    Hey Harv. So close to victory! I've not opened your save. Taking as much as you can off Sitting Bull seems the best move but if you run out of momentum or can spare the troops don't forget you could backstab Ragnar. Whipping a big stack of cavalry you could probably take him out in less than 10 turns? This must get you close to domination limit?
     
  18. Harv

    Harv Emperor Supporter

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    I also went with democracy and build the Kremlin, so buying units at 2gp per hammers. I have been too lazy lately to go through my cities for that.
     
  19. 5tephen

    5tephen Warlord

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    @Harv
    How about playing a game with a self-imposed rule of no wonders at all next game just to see what can be achieved without them?
    If I see a screenshot of Cristo Redontor in your game I'm leaving CivFanatics forever!

    Looking at your screenshots only, I wonder if you might want to consider your stack management a bit? I generally have horse units as a completely separate stack; their great benefit is their 2 movement ability which enables them to exert pressure on more than 1 city at a time or punch deep into enemy territory but this is completely negated by anything with 1 movement point joining the stack. If I were building a stack of rifles and cannons (my favourite combination) I usually aim for about 50% cannons - rifles defend the stack, injured cannons bombard and full health cannons attack, rifles attack with >99.9% chance, take no damage, a few units stay in the city for defence and the whole stack moves on - not quite as quick as horses but a completely relentless attack - less cannons = slower attacks, more healing and a longer war in my opinion.
     
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  20. Harv

    Harv Emperor Supporter

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    I will build CR the next time I play a spiritual leader and gain the benefit of fewer turns between changes. Then I can try many combinations of civics!

    I also thought about telling everybody I was going to reload from T25 to see how well Marlene’s HA would work.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2020
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