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Catholicism, Orthodoxy and the Apostolic Palace

Discussion in 'Rhye's and Fall - Dawn of Civilization' started by Leoreth, Jan 20, 2016.

  1. Leoreth

    Leoreth 心の怪盗団 Moderator

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    Maybe we should go by population instead :D
     
  2. Tigranes

    Tigranes Armenian

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    Byzantium was a major international player in ADs, owning the largest city in the world one time, it would be there regardless of Rome's collapse. Empire would just split, it happened not in the moment of crisis, but when Empire was relatively strong and stable. Later we simply have Orthodox Greek power, being "Roman" only by name. Remember Greeks came to the East before Romans, so it's natural to make Byzantium unconditional. New testament was written in Greek, not Latin -- wouldn't it be weird to have Christianity both without Jews and without contemporary Greek power?
     
  3. Leoreth

    Leoreth 心の怪盗団 Moderator

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    I think that Byzantium as a civ specifically represents the Roman influenced Greek culture in the area. It's not unthinkable of course that a Greek power could exist without ever being conquered by the Romans, but we have the Greek civ to represent that. Of course the Greeks could just as well become the center of Orthodoxy, with Constantinople as the capital and little effectively changing compared to the Byzantines.

    Greece surviving is one of the things that can prevent the Byzantine spawn, there is not much of a problem in that case.

    Another scenario is that Rome destroys Greece, but then is either too stable or collapses too early for Byzantium to spawn. In this case the situation is less clear.
     
  4. citis

    citis Chieftain

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    1. Orthodoxy is found with Theology.
    2. Apostolic palace founds Catholicism, trigers Great Schism.
    3. Jerusalem remains orthodox holy city.
    4. Hagia-Sophia: Becomes a wonder: +2:),+2 priest slot, +1:culture: from temple, monastery. It represents the fact that Hagia Sophia established the architecture (domed basilica) of christian churches once and for all.
    5. Church of Holy Sepulchre becomes orthodox shrine.
    6. Temple of Nativity becomes catholic shrine.
    6. Holy Roman 2nd UHC: Control Apostolic Palace, Temple of Nativity, Church of Holy Sepulchre and Hagia Sophia by 1300AD.
     
  5. Leoreth

    Leoreth 心の怪盗団 Moderator

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    Actually as of now the main problem appears to be ensuring sufficient spread of Christianity in the Roman Empire. This is desirable for accuracy anyway, will think about a good solution next.
     
  6. phoenix_sprite

    phoenix_sprite Chieftain

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    I don't know if this is possible at all, but Christianity should spread faster the more :mad: is present in a city. That or after more half than half of Roman cities have had Christianity spread to them, there should be an event asking the Roman AI/Player if they want to adopt Christianity as a state religion, regardless of it they are running Pantheon.

    Should they accept, then they would adopt Organized Religion, convert to Christianity and receive a Great Prophet (Constantine :p) at the cost of 2 to 3 anarchy turns.

    Should they refuse, then all non-Christian cities will get +1 (or +2) :) and perhaps a free GP? Engineer, scientist or artist? That seems a bit powerful but it's an idea.
     
  7. Leoreth

    Leoreth 心の怪盗団 Moderator

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    Quick update: I'm currently working on this again.
     
  8. windman

    windman Chieftain

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    Hi Leoreth,

    I am wondering what is the current religious mechanism for founding the Christianity in v1.14? I played China and founded Orthodoxy, however, most of the time, the Great Schism is never triggered and no one could found Catholicism including my self.
     
  9. Leoreth

    Leoreth 心の怪盗団 Moderator

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    There are two ways the schism can happen:
    1. half or more of all Orthodox cities are not controlled by civs with Orthodox state religion
    2. an Orthodox Cathedral is built

    The first one is the "historical" trigger which is intended to be set off by the Roman collapse. Obviously that cannot happen if you're likely the only Orthodox civ in China.
     
  10. windman

    windman Chieftain

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    OK, thanks for the explanation. I find it is tricky when I play as China, as once Orthodoxy is founded in China (and no schism happens), the European countries would suffer from the lack of multiple Catholic wonders.
     
  11. windman

    windman Chieftain

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    I tried three times playing Byzantium 3000BC scenario. An interesting finding is that every time the Byzantine always starts with a Catholic missionary and the Catholic state religion. Not sure if it is intentional or because of the new mechanism of the Great Schism, but in reality it should starts with Orthodox ones.
     
  12. Leoreth

    Leoreth 心の怪盗団 Moderator

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    Okay, I'll review it.
     
  13. Imp. Knoedel

    Imp. Knoedel Knoedel Imperator Satani Filius Augustus Nooborum

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    I like this idea, it simulates the historical spread of Christianity among the poor and downtrodden in the late Roman Empire.
     
  14. Leoreth

    Leoreth 心の怪盗団 Moderator

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    It's an interesting idea, maybe it should become a general rule for non-state religions?
     
  15. Imp. Knoedel

    Imp. Knoedel Knoedel Imperator Satani Filius Augustus Nooborum

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    If we ever got around to implementing enforced atheism this would also work nicely there, see the role of the Church in the German Democratic Republic.
     
  16. Leoreth

    Leoreth 心の怪盗団 Moderator

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    No need for special rules for enforced atheism, I would simply consider every religion a non-state religion for civs without state religion.
     
  17. Imp. Knoedel

    Imp. Knoedel Knoedel Imperator Satani Filius Augustus Nooborum

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    Alright, but how do we implement enforced atheism?
     
  18. citis

    citis Chieftain

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    theocracy/fanaticism+no state religion
     
  19. cel10

    cel10 Chieftain

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    Haven't played this mod long so I'm not 100% familiar with the mechanics - but does this mean that the Great Schism (and consequently the Reformation) will never happen to a stable Orthodox player? I've played as Orthodox Rome, Greece and Byzantium and Catholicism never is founded. :/
     
  20. ezzlar

    ezzlar Chieftain

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    It triggers when half of the orthodox cities dont have it as state religion IIRC.
     

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