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Cavaleiros Embassy & Intelligence

Discussion in 'Team Kazakhstan' started by Provolution, Jan 14, 2009.

  1. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd Rest in Peace Black Panther

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    Does Cavalieros know that they have a land route to MS along the coast? Im thinking they probably do, but it might be good to inform them just in case they don't. It is close to their out-lying city afterall, so they might think there are mountains blocking it). I know MS is an ally, but just blindly trusting them not to fall for SANCTA "whispers" (you're too far behind, your a junior partner/towelboy for CavKaz etc...). I would hate for Cavalieros to get sneak attacked or caught unawares.

    A simple chat or PM message would probably do, as opposed to an Official comunique, but I will leave that up to folks who chat with Cavalieros.
     
  2. Indiansmoke

    Indiansmoke Deity

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    I would send something like this

     
  3. Kaleb

    Kaleb Deity

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    Ok, I'll send my pm without the gold bit, and we can mention that in an 'offical pm'.

    How much will it cost to upgrade an Axe to a Mace? I can't remember.
     
  4. Indiansmoke

    Indiansmoke Deity

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    Axe to mace is 125 gold sword to mace 110 gold.


    We need 705 gold to upgrade 3 axes and 3 swords to maces... we make about 60 a turn so if we run 5 turns 0 after machinery we will gather 300 gold.

    So roughly we need from allies 125 to get machinery in 3 + 300 in 8 turns from now to upgrade

    If we get a reply from them before next turn and they are willing to go for it then we can otimize to have even more units...I will post updated plan at military tactics.
     
  5. damnrunner

    damnrunner Emperor

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    We might want to leave out the direct amount we are asking for.

    It can come across like we are demanding 600 gold right away when really it is more like 150 from each team.

    But we do need to send a note. And I would rather send one sooner than worry too much about what the content of the note is.
     
  6. Kaleb

    Kaleb Deity

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    first priority is to get enough gold to carry on at 100% for the turn coming up.

    I'm tempted to ask MS for the gold to do the research and Cav to ask money for the unit upgrades
     
  7. donsig

    donsig Low level intermediary

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    Hey guys, if we need lots of gold for upgrades and won't have that for several turns why are we rushing to get machinery? Why not get machinery in due time instead of asking for gold to rush the research? This way any gold we do get can go for the upgrades.
     
  8. Indiansmoke

    Indiansmoke Deity

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    cause we need to start building units as well..upgrades are expensive, we can do max 6 with all that gold.
     
  9. Kaleb

    Kaleb Deity

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    well Cav have done their turn - can someone send something over quickly, MS can still send us some gold. I'm not sure how much each team has at the moment but I can check

    we'll have to drop our rate quite a bit if we don't get gold this turn.
     
  10. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd Rest in Peace Black Panther

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    Send what to who :king:? I will send the message, or whatever... Just want to be sure what to send... Maybe someone else knows, and will be motivated by this post to "Just Do It" as the NIKE slogan goes ;)
     
  11. damnrunner

    damnrunner Emperor

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    I think the same note that was sent to Team Cav could also go to MS.
     
  12. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd Rest in Peace Black Panther

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    OK Thanks Damnrunner, I did not get it, but now I do...

    I sent :king:'s same message via PM to Mad Scientists.
     
  13. classical_hero

    classical_hero In whom I trust

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    I just got contacted by Oyzar, this is what they want to know.

    What do you want me to say?
     
  14. Kaleb

    Kaleb Deity

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    Thanks for sharing that post :)

    We've not had any gold from MS. Or even any word from the uncommunicative ones :(

    Interesting SAN expect an attack in 15 turns. Hopefully we can hit them before that!
     
  15. donsig

    donsig Low level intermediary

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    Well, how fast we can hit them with maces depends on how much gold we get from them and MS, correct? The real question is how much do we want to share with Team Cav? There's obviously alot of talking going on between players on all teams. Any of you people ever heard the old WW II adage about loose lips sinking ships? I'd be much more comfortable telling Team Cav about our plans if they we're talking to SANCTA so much.

    Perhaps we should just reply that we're still waiting to hear back from them on what aid they can give us so we can make some real plans.
     
  16. Indiansmoke

    Indiansmoke Deity

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    Continuing here...

    Spoiler :
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Indiansmoke
    EDIT: OK can we send the original proposal without the 20.000 beackers then?

    That was the first thing we said to do, but you refused to send it because you said they would not accept it....now that it is obvious how irrational it was can we send it like that?

    Also...they are not helping us they are helping themselves...us at war with Sancta is good for them....

    Well, I probably asked this before, but when you suggest sending the treaty back without the 20,000 beaker clause are you also suggesting we drop the clause about being compensated for excess beakers? Dropping the discount without dropping our demands for excess beaker compensation is ridiculous. Now that it's more likely we won't be out teching Team Cav to a great extent are we ready to agree to share techs regardless of how many beakers are involved in the trades?

    I understand the current political situation. My two points were:
    We refused Team Cav's We-Help-Each-Other-No-Matter-What-The-Cost alliance offer and so we cannot now complain that they do what is in their best interest rather than what would be best for the secret alliance within an alliance that we rejected.
    Team Cav and MS are helping us by sharing tech and gold (at least on Team Cav's part). The could be taking the approach we took in the past and argue for equal tech contributions - something we'd be hard pressed to do while stopping research for some turns. It could also be worse if they decided to dog pile us.


    We did not refuse the we help each other no matter what deal...we refused to give 20.000 beackers.

    A fair deal would be both teams to give roughly equal tech and if someone is at war the other team to agree to help by other means as well...keeping the balance in land and cities real.

    Everything else is just excuses IMO.

    For now Cav are helping with gold and techs, but not with units..when we have paper we will see how close they are and will be able to tell of whether sending land units is feasible..which should be I think.

    So can we get them to agree in such a deal?

    What will they gain? First eliminate Sancta threat. Second advance fast in tech, as we are teching fast despite our war. third gain an ally that will help them in future wars.

    I don't think there is any downside for them..on the other hand if we decided to switch and go with sancta or if Sancta overwelmed us it would be very bad for them.
     
  17. Kaleb

    Kaleb Deity

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    If we can take cities of SANCTA that will quickly rectify any imbalances in the REXing that Cav have been doing. SANCTA have lots of well developed cities and I'm sure they will be well placed too - so they are the biggest rival but also the biggest prize!
     
  18. donsig

    donsig Low level intermediary

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    Yes, we did refuse the help-each-other-no-matter-what deal. Part of such a deal includes helping each other with tech no matter what. In other words we each give all the tech we get whether the other gives more or less tech in return. We did not accept that. We wanted to either make the tech trades balanced or get back something extra from them for giving them more :science: You still cling to this idea (though now you've modified it to include military aid during war):

    In other words, you are quite all right with them giving us more than they get but not the other way around. That is not a help-each-other-no-matter-what alliance that is a Team-Cav-helps-Kaz-no-matter-what deal. I also suspect you'll be modifying your idea of a fair alliance again should we fall seriously behind Team Cav in :science: output.

    Still, you haven't answered the question I asked (again) when you brought this up in the other thread. Are you willing to drop the idea of "both teams to give roughly equal tech"? If you are then we can return the treaty without the 20k beaker discount and the excess beaker compensation. (We also want a clause about no one declaring war without the other's permission.) If you're ready to freely give Team Cav tech then we can seal a deal with them (I hope - would have been easier to do before the war). If you're going to cling to equal tech trades then there's no point in sending back the treaty with just the beaker discount removed.
     
  19. Indiansmoke

    Indiansmoke Deity

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    Donsig, if this was a solo game I would ask/demand from Cav to help by tech, gold and units.

    If they refused I would go to Sancta and tell them to give me angle/rase that new city and in exchange I would give them all my techs and make perm alliance and wipe Cav out.

    As simple as that...I don't care about about cav's sensitivities or understanding of fairness...as far as I am concerened they either help in every way they can and stop asking for stupid things or I would change behavior as well.

    I want us to win...not Cav!
     
  20. Kaleb

    Kaleb Deity

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    Btw I'm assuming people are happy for us to gift our wb to Cav?? We don't need it anymore

    Cav are running at 0% so we should get the gold we need from them.
     

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