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Cavaleiros Embassy

Discussion in 'Team SANCTA' started by General_W, Mar 4, 2009.

  1. Krill

    Krill Chieftain

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    I dunno, still thinking about it, one of two things happens:

    1. Sailing is a monopoly tech that we own, that we want to try and sell to all of the teams quickly but for a decent price, to stop other teams from researching it more cheaply and selling it more cheaply. This option limits us to selling it to Cavs and Kaz for unknown techs (likely, they try to sell us cheap stuff like writing and polytheism, techs that we can research more cheaply or "belong" to another team)

    2. Another team researches it before we do and sells it to the other teams (not sure who could buy it though, unless it was Kaz who are going to sell it to Cavs who then seel it to MS). This outcome makes it a waste of time to mention.

    Libraries don't really enter into it; they'd get built at the same time as without trading for it. Giving Cavs another tech to hold over everyone isn;t in our interests either. OTOH, masonary+Sailing+MC = 940 beakers, alphabet+monarchy = 896...maybe tying sailing to MC would be useful? But such a trade is asking Cavs to trade us Kazs' tech, and wouldn;t leave us alot to trade for off of Kaz, MS or Saturn if we ran into them, short of gifting them techs for the promise of future techs.

    Considering our position, alphabet does become more useful, as we can trade with MS, and try to set up a tech alliance, or even just a series of trades, the sooner we can get this the better, but we need to hold off trading MC for another 20 or so turns. Considering what Cavs may be capable of production wise, I can see them challenging for the Collosus in their capital even if we were to trade them MC on t90, without any chops.

    Quite the conundrum, really.
     
  2. General_W

    General_W Councilor & Merlot Noble

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    It's certainly a conundrum.
    Still - my gut tells me to error on the side of making a trade.

    Essentially, it's my view that in the absence of perfect information, we should gamble on trying to be a part of as many trades as possible. Like 1889 points out - there's a diplomatic consequence for Kaz here also. A good trade or two with the Cavs could help put some distance between them and Kaz.

    I think we can mitigate the superior value of Sailing somewhat by attaching a trading moratorium on Sailing (see proposal below).

    We really need to get a letter sent off asap.
    Here's my proposal:

    Version 2:
    Thoughts?
    If we don't get quick agreement to this (in the next 4 hours) - I'd like to suggest we send off version 1 so that we can get this done before the Cavs play their save.
     
  3. Krill

    Krill Chieftain

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    What's the point of offering Early morning (Light of dawn?) if we offer daylight as well? And OBs?

    There is absolutely nothing there that benefits us, short or long term, writing just isn't that important. We should at least ask for something in return.

    I vote for Version 1...or be cheaky, and chat with Methos, tell him we would consider sailing now for alpha when we research writing and offer MC t90...
     
  4. Memphus

    Memphus Chieftain

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    i still think version 1 is the way to go. if the go twilight, then we offer them sailing for it.
     
  5. 1889

    1889 Mayor of H-Marker Lake

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    We offer you two paths: The Way of Twilight, The Way of Early Morning, and The Way of....We offer you three paths...

    Good enough, I have a few small objections but they are not worth delaying any longer.
     
  6. Ronnie1

    Ronnie1 Chieftain

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    I think version #1 may be a better way to go.
     
  7. Memphus

    Memphus Chieftain

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    yup version 1 and version 2 is the backup.
     
  8. AutomatedTeller

    AutomatedTeller Frequent poster

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    We could adapt a "we'll trade this to you but you can't trade it to anyone else" plan. I doubt anyone would break such an agreement this early in the game.
     
  9. azzaman333

    azzaman333 meh

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    Not sure if it's been said, but why not let them through for Writing? Open Borders is better for them than us, so we'd want some compensation, and Writing is cheap. Seems to me like the closest situation to win-win.
     
  10. General_W

    General_W Councilor & Merlot Noble

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    sorry everyone, last night was totally off normal schedule last night, and I forgot to check in here :blush:

    Sending version 1 now.
    :salute:

    To Methos via PM and e-mail
    Spoiler :
    Namaste, Methos
    The Ninjas salute the mighty Cavaleiros.

    We are most pleased to have met your people and to be beginning a new relationship.

    Based on your expressed desire for Open Borders and to secure safe passage for your brave vessel through our waterways and on to whatever mysteries the west holds…

    we wish to offer you two paths. You may follow either one with the blessing of the SAN.

    The Way of Twilight:
    We agree that you'll declare war – and thus pass through the borders of the Inner Sanctum – with the eternal Shogun's personal guarantee of safety for your vessel. Then, as soon as your boat is past our borders, we will sign a peace deal and continue negotiations of friendship.

    The Way of Daylight:
    We agree to an Open Borders deal AND a trade of knowledge. Along with the lopsided benefit you'll receive from Open Borders (map knowledge, potential new contacts, trade routes when you learn Sailing), we will also offer you Metal Casting (or some other mutually agreeable technology to be determined) at a 100 beaker trade value discount in a trade that will be executed some time after turn 90 - in exchange for the secret of writing given to us at the same time we sign Open Borders.

    What say you?
    We eagerly await your reply.


    General_W, Daimyo of State, SANCTA.

    An old silent sea…
    A letter dispatched abroad,
    Diplomacy starts.
     
  11. Krill

    Krill Chieftain

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    Something else we may want to consider (and this goes for Kaz as well).

    We could offer to trade sailing and masonary for writing and another tech, probably polytheism. I know we want CoL, but I have a sneaking suspicion that Saturn are going for it, and have been for the past 15 turns (no techs researched or learned in that time, cheap courthouses, and needing a religion), so we may want to hold of on CoL for a short while, even if it is just saving gold to deficit research it at the last moment, to give us more time to find Saturn and arrange a trade with them for MC.
     
  12. Memphus

    Memphus Chieftain

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    it also let's us pull a play on mono for our religion
     
  13. Krill

    Krill Chieftain

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    Prospective letter to Cav

     
  14. 1889

    1889 Mayor of H-Marker Lake

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    I'd rather wait for their response to our first letter before we contact them again. I think sending an addendum makes us look a little disorganized or indecisive.
     
  15. Memphus

    Memphus Chieftain

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    or it makes us look like we want to work with them more because Kaz jsut just got CoL
     
  16. Krill

    Krill Chieftain

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    Looking disorganised is better than not knowing when all hell has just broken loose. Not sending these emails is possibly suicidal.

    After sailing, what do we do? We have no techs to research that haven't already been researched other than machinery.

    We need CoL in 28 turns. We can just barely research that and masonary in 30 turns, where we will be left with nothing to trade because Kaz already have CoL and will spread it around. We will have an economy that will sacre the living bejesus out of everyone, with no allies, and be in a massive tech hole, while Kaz and Cavs have cemented their alliance and run off with the game.

    This trade is a precursor, that lets us sell MC for CoL and monarchy, so we are not totally screwed. It would get us, if it worked out, alphabet, writing and polytheism, a religion, the tech we need for Pyramids and make us seem like nice guys who want to work with other teams, and should be finished before t85, giving us just enough time to get CoL if we really really have to.
     
  17. General_W

    General_W Councilor & Merlot Noble

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    If it weren't for the bigger strategic objective - I'd normally agree with 1889 here.

    But desperate times call for desperate measures. I'd support firing this off to the Cavs at the same time as the letter to the Kazacks - and a bigger proposal to the Mad Scientists.
     
  18. dutchfire

    dutchfire Moderator Moderator

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    This is Methos' team right? It would be ideal to contact him in a chat, and "casually" mention this. That way, we don't come over as desperate, and we get an immediate reply.
     
  19. General_W

    General_W Councilor & Merlot Noble

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    yeah - I already looked online for him, and he's not on.

    I'll keep an eye out for him though - I agree that a chat would be best if we can swing it.
     
  20. 1889

    1889 Mayor of H-Marker Lake

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    I approve this message. Although we might want to throw in hunting too. Currently we offer 447 for 448, hunting is only another 59.
     

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