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Cavaleiros Embassy

Discussion in 'Team SANCTA' started by General_W, Mar 4, 2009.

  1. Memphus

    Memphus Chieftain

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    yes but he also knows how skilled we are :blush:
     
  2. Krill

    Krill Chieftain

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    Direct him to the Smurkz team thread in the SGotM forum, and show him that while we are decent, so are Cavs.
     
  3. Krill

    Krill Chieftain

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    nm, not important.
     
  4. azzaman333

    azzaman333 meh

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    They also have a large collection of promenent posters from the strategy and tips sub-forums.
     
  5. Memphus

    Memphus Chieftain

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    G_W time to work your silver tounge.

    Explain not the will of the team to Methos, But Memphus went on a tagent and offered peace. Their WB is trapped :D

    Edit: Well unless the pick another option?

    Spoiler :




     
  6. General_W

    General_W Councilor & Merlot Noble

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    Thanks for timely warning Memphus (and Krill!)

    Methos IMed me for a chat shortly after you both let me know what was coming.

    Here it is:
    Spoiler :

    Methos:
    greetings
    Methos:
    I noticed one of your players (Matthew) offered us peace which bumped our wb out of your lands.
    Methos:
    I hope this is not a sign of your anger at us.
    General_W:
    A peace treaty?
    General_W:
    sorry - I'm out of date here... logging into CFC
    Methos:
    I can't recall if it was peace, or a cease fire. I was just hoping you weren't upset with us.
    General_W:
    looks like peace.
    General_W:
    yeah - our team hasn't really talked or voted on this - Memphus sometimes makes these... er... "executive decisions" :D
    Methos:
    it wasn't Memphus, but someone names Matthew
    General_W:
    yeah - Memphus is Matthew.
    Methos:
    oh, ok
    General_W:
    doesn't always change his name when he logs into the PitBoss.
    Methos:
    hehe, sort of like I signed in as my gminor attempt
    General_W:
    oh - I see that in a screenshot here. funny
    General_W:
    anyway - I don't think you should interpret a peace treaty as a sign of being upset.
    Methos:
    probably wondering why I was signed in for so long without finishging the turn and then coming back later I take it
    Methos:
    just checking, as I wasn't sure
    General_W:
    well - I know we'd feel a lot better about things if we were trading instead of just talking - but I'm not going to beat you up over it. :) - you've obviously got your reasons.
    General_W:
    I know I've asked this before, but it may have gotten lost in the heat of everything else we were talking about - so one last time (I promise!) - Is there anything possible that you might view as a reasonable trade option with us?
    Methos:
    basically we're not interested in trading just for the sake of trading
    Methos:
    and about the only thing we are interested in is MC, which I don't believe you are willing to trade at this time
    Methos:
    yes, bringing the wetsuit
    General_W:
    the wetsuit?
    Methos:
    sorry, wrong convo
    General_W:
    lol - well, that other conversation sounds like more fun!
    Methos:
    we're doing a cave trip this weekend and we're not sure how wet it is, so was just telling him I'm bringing mine just in case
    General_W:
    wow - sounds very cool
    General_W:
    ok - so just hypothetically - havening not talked to my team about this - what if we were willing to trade Metal Casting with some restrictions... what might you be willing to give up for that?
    Methos:
    http://www.civfanatics.net/methos/miscellaneous/caving/hunters_cave.jpg
    General_W:
    right on! yeah... that looks a little wet
    Methos:
    it got down to 8 inches of air with about 3' of water
    General_W:
    clostrophobiacs need not apply.
    Methos:
    hmm
    Methos:
    I was under the impression that at this time you weren't willing to trade away MC. Is it possible now?
    General_W:
    well, that's why I said "hypothetically" - and it would have to come with restrictions. If you'd still even be interested at that point?
    Methos:
    alphabet could be a possibility, but of course this is hypothetically
    General_W:
    let's see... Alphabet is 448, Metal Casting is 672... is that right?
    General_W:
    close enough for a hypothetical discussion anyway
    General_W:
    If we laid down a trading moratorium and asked you to swear off the Colossus - would you still be interested? hypothetically?

    Note from General_W: Before anyone gets upset that I gave away our intention to build the Colossus – I think we've pretty much telegraphed that already by a) researching Metal Casting so soon and b) telling the Cavs we weren't willing to trade MC till turn 90 or later. I don't think this proposal reveals anything they hadn't already figured out. – and I decied that making this hypothetical proposal would be very valuable in revealing their response.

    Methos:
    I believe the possibility is there, hypothetically
    General_W:
    ok - I'll go float this with the team.
    Methos:
    as will I
    Methos:
    btw, I'll be gone this weekend, from Friday until Sunday, if for some reason you need to get a hold of us just email the team email, or PM me. all pms go to my phone, so once I'm above ground I can still check CFC
    General_W:
    ok - will do. Thanks for the headsup.


    Executive Summary:
    1. I laid the groundwork for blaming Memphus for trapping the Cav WB. Seemed a little to early to start "blaming anyone" – they don't even know they are trapped yet!
    2. I took one last (very gentle) attempt at seeing if they would be interested in trade at all. The answer was a very tepid – maybe a trade for Metal Casting… maybe.
    3. I suggested a highly qualified highly hypotetical deal: We give Metal Casting for Alphabet. They promise to not trade Metal Casting around for some period of time and promise not to build the Colossus. Would we even be interested in a deal like that? I mainly wanted to see how he'd react.

    Thoughts?
     
  7. Memphus

    Memphus Chieftain

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    I say we offer it jsut to confirm where they are at. trick is we need to offer it before thier turn and they see they are trapped.
     
  8. Krill

    Krill Chieftain

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    (Sorry if this doesn't make sense, I have an evil headache right now)

    I...don't think we can trade MC anymore tbh. If we do trade with them, they'll realise that they were trapped, and that we had them in a position where we were in control of all of the decisions. They'll know that we tricked them (even if we spin it saying that Memphus did it unilaterally) and they'll probably be very pissed off at us for that. Any artificial restrictions, such as a No Collosus clause are likely to get ignored...

    And on the other side, we want to show that we like MS, and trust them, and as such we want to trade with them unrestrictedly, and because of this we want to give them alpha at a low price, unlike what Cavs are doing. If we trade for alpha, Cavs can also give away alpha to MS and gain brownie points there, driving us and MS apart, because MS woould be able to trade with or without alphabet anyway. If we don't trade for alpha, then Cavs can only help MS by trading them alpha, which helps us trade with MS, so we gain the alpha trading bonus either way, whether we trade MC away or not.

    So tbh, I'm not interested in trading MC away, if we can get MS on our side now and get a trade embargo in place.
     
  9. Krill

    Krill Chieftain

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    Now that the workboat is trapped, we need to decide on what course of action we take with Cavs, and how we explain this situation to the other teams (MS and Kaz now, Saturn when we meet them).

    Currently, we have sent a letter to MS asking for a chat, after we sent them a letter hinting that Cav and Kaz were in bed together in a rather compromising position. We do not know where we stand with them, but with any luck on our side we can show them that we are good allies for them to have, and that by trapping the wb we are attempting to slow the growth of Cavs lead over all of the teams. OTOH, Kaz are giving us the cold shoulder already, so we coud just consider them a hopeless case already, although it's always better to appear friendly to a team than give them the cold shoulder as they are doing to us, yet we do not have an edge to prise them open with. (Interesting side note: Have we actually told Cavs that we don't want to trade MC yet? So how did Methos get the opinion that we don't want to trade MC just yet?)


    The choices that we have to handle Cavs though are somewhat more...difficult to discern. We can no longer trade with them in a manner where we gift them techs and trust them; we have, by trapping the workboat showed that we don't trust them at all. They know that we want alphabet. We don't know if they have found Saturn yet.

    If they haven't found Saturn as yet, then they have a vested interest in getting the workboat through to meet them, so we have a new adge over them. If they have already found Saturn though, the wb is only useful for scouting out the map, and so Cavs will jsut let us destroy it

    (We have no choice in the matter anymore, we either get what we want and let it pass, get what we want and backstab, killing it in 10 turns anyway, fail to get what we want and kill it, or fold like wimps and let it through anyway).

    So, here is the question: Do we demand a/multiple tech off of Cavs? (with the only tech that we can safely give on our side being, hah, Sailing).

    We also need to discuss this quickly, because Cavs will know the situation that they are in by tomorrow evening at the latest, so G_W needs to know how to what limits he has on how to treat Methos :D
     
  10. 1889

    1889 Mayor of H-Marker Lake

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    First of all MS still haven't got back to us (two days now right?) so I'm not ready to count them as best buds yet.

    Second of all MC is significantly more expensive than Alph so one option is to offer the trade but say that one way to ballance it out is that trade restrictions only apply to MC and not to Alph.
     
  11. Krill

    Krill Chieftain

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    Oh, if we traded MC for alpha, they would basically just gift alpha to MS to screw us over. We can't trade MC unless we decide that we don't mind them building Collosus and trading MC to Kaz (the best strategy is now for each team to screw over the other as much as possible until we can land hard blows on each other, which would mean alpha and MC getting spread right around the world for nothing).

    Cavs will know we trapped their workboat. They will know we are not messing about, and that we don't trust them. So we trust them with MC...why? We're now engaged in a game of brinkmanship that is only going to end, ultimately, when one fo Cavs and us is dead. It takes us 13 turns to research alphabet, how long will it take Cavs to research MC? A lot more than 13 turns, that's for sure.
     
  12. azzaman333

    azzaman333 meh

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    We should just research Alpha ourselves IMO.
     
  13. Memphus

    Memphus Chieftain

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    That is most likely what we will do.
     
  14. General_W

    General_W Councilor & Merlot Noble

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    Had a short chat with Methos today.
    Mostly I stalled and pressed him to get us a formal proposal.
    Read it here for yourself:
    Spoiler :

    Methos
    hello
    Methos
    are you busy?
    General_W
    hey - not too bad
    General_W
    what's up?
    Methos
    we we're just curious as to how your team felt about the alpha/mc deal?
    General_W
    yeah - we're still discussing that, believe it or not. Heated discussions. lol. Any news from you end?
    Methos
    My team seems happy with deal, hence our curiosity to yours
    General_W
    I've been out of the loop all weekend. I'm on the forums now trying to catch up.
    Methos
    understand, been gone all weekend and come back to 30 thread subscriptions!
    Methos
    let me know when your team is ready to push forward
    General_W
    bah - sorry, got on the phone here at work.
    Methos
    np, I understand
    General_W
    ok - so it looks like we still haven't gotten an official proposal from your team.
    General_W
    are you waiting for one from us?
    Methos
    I've been gone all weekend and just got back last night, so was just letting the team discuss
    Methos
    figured we could knock out some of the particulars here unless you prefer a formal proposal?
    General_W
    well - I don't have much to say because the team is still divided and discussing.
    General_W
    so at this point, I think it would help to focus our conversation and bring us to resolution if you offered something more concrete
    General_W
    based on what might be acceptable to your team.
    Methos
    I'll pass this along then
    General_W
    ok - sorry I wasn't more helpful. sounds like we're both in the same boat here. lol
    Methos
    yeah, but at least we're moving forward finally
     
  15. Krill

    Krill Chieftain

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    No MC trade. They'll just punt it to Kaz, and we don't have a reason to trust them, instead having several reasons to not trust them.

    Do they even know their workboat is trapped?
     
  16. Memphus

    Memphus Chieftain

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    Yup Let's stall them, but also see what Kaz will give us for it...

    The longer we stall the longer they don't research it themselves. Once we have alpha then we say oops tech trade not available, what else you have in mind? then we might have to trade it for CoL.
     
  17. Memphus

    Memphus Chieftain

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    ideally we let thier wb through for Alpha. (as in not sink it)
    that is ideal case.
     
  18. Krill

    Krill Chieftain

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    Just wondering, but have Cavs moved their workboat at all?
     
  19. Memphus

    Memphus Chieftain

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    yes they did. They moved it backwards.
     
  20. Krill

    Krill Chieftain

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    I think G_W can expect a chat some point today...
     

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