Cavarly rush: Too good?

[player1 fanatic]

Needs Military Tradition and Gunpowder.

Research "upper part of tech tree": up to Nationalism and then Military Tradition.
Research "lower part of tech tree": up to Gunpowder

Ingore most of "middle parts of tech tree.

If you are "lucky" you'll get Cavalry before others get Muskets, and if you are just playing well, you'll always get them before others get Granadires or Riflemen.

And that means one big advantage.

Unit with Strenght of 15 can easly bite Pikemen and Musketeers.
Not to mention that there is really no good defense against their pillage ability.


And if you in some case play Russians, there are strenght of 18 Cossaks!

Best military rush ever for Russians.

 

[sprprsnmn]

I've been using a strategy like that when I play as the Russians. You kinda get bitten in the rear eventually because the other middle techs help your (now expanding) empire not collapse from upkeep concerns.

 

[Astax]

Hmm I dont know dude, to me somethign that takes up to 1000 AD+ isn't a rush

 

[dar]

Cavalry do have trouble with Pikemen fortified in high culture cities. Cavalry's main strength is not in the first attack, its that with the flanking promotions they have something like a 60% chance to withdraw from a losing fight. With sufficient Pikemen your enemy can hold off your first attack, and then massacre your damaged Cavalry before they can heal. Of course thats multiplayer - in single you will more than likely steamroll over the AI .

 

[player1 fanatic]

Well, as long as you get good advantage, like AI having no Riflemen, it's a rush.

 

[player1 fanatic]

Well, you can alwasy opt to pillage instead while waiting for Catapults to arrive.

Pikemen can't really win that struggle.

EDIT:
There is a reason why anti-mount infantry has better strenght from their mounted counterparts.

For Cavalry that's Riflemen, not Pikemen.

 

[dh_epic]

A beeline to cavalry if you ignore much of the middle part of the tech tree can be a work of genius.

But that's only if someone else didn't beeline to crossbows and longbows... and then knights and muskets. An earlier payoff, which can really mess things up significantly. They would ignore a lot of wonders and peaceful advances in the top half to do so, but it's also a good strategy.

It seems like there's an interesting balance going on here. Beeline to cavalry vs. beeline to knights -- one comes earlier, but peaks sooner. One comes later, but leaves you vulnerable for a long time.

 

[Oggums]

I would think you'd go broke, but if you can manage without all the other stuff, go for it.

 

[madmaven]

I agree with the pros and cons of your post.

I would say if you're playing the Russians this is a good strategy. You might as well get your UU as soon as you can and thus give you an edge for as long as possible. Plus, the cossack is a powerful UU. I play the same way with England. I get rifling as soon as I can so I'll have redcoats.

Of course, neglecting the middle part of the tree can slow your development and growth down a little, but if you're looking to warmonger you'll get it all back or at least slow down the other civs.

 

[dar]

For Cavalry that's Riflemen, not Pikemen.

Yes the ideal counter to cavalry is Riflemen. If you are behind in tech however, Pikemen are HALF the cost of Cavalry. With a modified strength of 12 vs Cavalry at 15, two pikemen will kill a cavalry when attacking. When defending a city they become even more deadly to cav with the added culture defense bonus.

If you have an equal number of Pikemen defending a city against Cav it will be very expensive for them to take the city. If you have more Pikes than Cav you will completely slaughter the entire stack after they attack, since withdrawel only counts for attacking.

 

[Oggums]

My old, 4 promotion phalanx can defend cities against Cavalry, to a certain extent. You'll still need catapults to take cities with Pikeman or better.

The pillaging would definitely be out of control, however. Hard to replace your pikes with no production. Or research Rifling with your towns destroyed.

 

[player1 fanatic]

Exactly.
Pikemen are just band aid, but not enough to actually win a war.

The beauty with this rush is if done properly that it will take a lots of time for other civs to reach Riflemen to couter this.

More difficult then knight rush for example.

 

[Salarakas]

Pikemen are an excellent counter against these things but I must say after playing a game as Russians the Cossack is one amazing UU. The AI didn't have gunpowder yet so the only unit that had any chance against these monsters was was the pikeman and with carefully choosing the right promotions in each case I totally steamrolled over a couple of AI civs. If you give some of your units combat 1, medic 1 and march you don't even have to stop the attack in order to heal... just steam forward and cripple the AI before they get better defenders.

 

[Dairuka]

Cavalry are nice, but Riflemen make short work of them. Even Cossacks fall to Riflemen with huge defense bonuses from city tiles, and vs Cavalry Bonuses.

 

[nilsmo]

I prefer the rushes right after the game starts with Roman Praetorians. I've never tried a cavalry rush, but it must be hard to topple developed civilizations.

 

[player1 fanatic]

Cavalry are nice, but Riflemen make short work of them. Even Cossacks fall to Riflemen with huge defense bonuses from city tiles, and vs Cavalry Bonuses.

Well the whole point of rush is to avoid Riflemen and cripple or defeat opponents before that.

 

[Dairuka]

Well the whole point of rush is to avoid Riflemen and cripple or defeat opponents before that.

Makes sense.

I just would not suggest trying this against somebody playing england. You'll be sorely dissapointed.

 

[Dr Corbett]

God save the Queen - Brittania rules more than just the waves when Redcoats come out.

However there's a certain pleasure in informing Kublai that, in fact, YOUR horde is better than his horde. Russian hordes > Mongol hordes any day of the week past 1450 ;-)

 

[Kilt]

Well the whole point of rush is to avoid Riflemen and cripple or defeat opponents before that.

Maybe it is a bad comparison, but the AI tried this one on me. I only had knights and pikemen to defend. Turns out a lvl3 pikeman can generally defeat a cavalry unit (probably pretty close to 50/50 depending on lvl of cavalry). Pikes certainly slow them down enough until you to get riflemen.
Of course using cavalry against the AI is a different story. But I am finding I generally don't need a tech advantage against the AI if I use terrain, and match up units accordingly, certainly for the early game.

Kilt.

 

[Gufnork]

Two Pikemen defeat a Cavalry and cost the same. It works against the AI since they're too stupid to masstrain Pikemen when faced with Cavalry, but not against a human.