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Caveman 2 Cosmos (ideas/discussions thread)

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Caveman 2 Cosmos' started by strategyonly, Sep 3, 2010.

  1. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    There are some plans along these lines in the land unit design charts coming together. There will be more once we get further into fleshing things out - I'm mostly creating a skeleton of interactivity at the moment with the new unit concepts. There are new unit plans throughout all ages there, but due to glaring missing pieces, many for the later ages.

    Including hunters, in hopes we can have some offworlds upon which to hunt for some truly exotic species at some point.
     
    GreatLordofPie likes this.
  2. altug

    altug Chieftain

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    I don't know if this kind of event is already in, but;
    - a possible global drought/famine event that can last 15+ turns scales with the speed, that cuts the food production like %80 or more, so cities may lose population, also the effect can be divided into north/south hemisphere if possible.
    - similar events that inverts the effect, or related with disease, production globally
     
  3. Trantor

    Trantor Warlord

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    a hover worker which can develop lakes and tiny islands.....
     
  4. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    You'd also need improvements for lakes and there aren't any I'm aware of unless there are resources or something in there. You can always get any worker transported to an island though. And later in the game there are tunnels.
     
  5. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    @Toffer90

    Regarding the conversion from free units to support gold, how did you program the free units tags in the traits? It was never valued so that it just represented a single gold towards units... so really would skew the values as they were assigned there. I do admit to a bit of an issue in that military unit support was thought to be more important than just a tack on feature of pacifism and when free units and free military units were assigned it was assumed it meant, non-military units vs military units upkeep. So eventually some review will be needed there. Probably to just merge the two into one tag, but still, if it's a 1-1 ratio of free units to support gold towards units then it's going to have to be some 10 times or more what I put in the free units spots to equate I think, perhaps less on the first rungs of traits and more on the last rungs where a gold means little to nothing on its own.
     
  6. Toffer90

    Toffer90 C2C Modder

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    Traits and civics have the exact same tags whose values are added together in the code
    There's:
    iFreeUnitUpkeepCivilian\Military, this can add an amount of gold to the base amount for free units. The base amount is set as a global define. More significant for small nation.

    iFreeUnitUpkeepCivilian\MilitaryPopPercent, this defines how much each population point adds to the base amount of free upkeep gold, its value is combined with the base factor set in global defines. More significant for large nations

    iCivilian\MilitaryUnitUpkeepMod, this is a modifier applied last when all the above has been used to get a gold amount.
    Now military units and non-miltary units (I used the term civilian in code) are two entirely separate unit upkeep systems, their individual totals are added together in the end. They both have their own global defines one for "base free unit upkeep amount" and a "base per population factor" defined in global defines.
    I though this best, so that the AI can more easily differentiate between it's army and its support units when it comes to being in financial trouble. Civilian unit upkeep and free civilian units are cached as separate values from the same two of the military branch.
    It's also more interesting for civics to be able to reduce the upkeep for civilian units while increasing it for military units or the other way around.
    For sure, first we assign a reasonable base upkeep to units (unit upkeep modifiers in unitCombat and promotions are secondary to just setting the base upkeep for units), then we will need to look at the trait and civic modifiers to free units and upkeep modifiers there, then there's the globals.
     
  7. Toffer90

    Toffer90 C2C Modder

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    This financial advisor screenshot is from a test game I ran on autoplay until it had 2 turns left to invented tribalism.
    sifnwifnw.jpg

    All the xml values will need a lot of adjustments going forward to tune the new system to a good state.
     
  8. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    I'm happy with all these answers. Particularly in that you DID actually divide out civilian and military units - that I'm very tickled pink by! Thank you!

    And of course I've mentioned that I'm reviewing the unit costs in the planning doc so we're on it.
     
  9. Toffer90

    Toffer90 C2C Modder

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    This screenshot is from a mid ancient era old save I had lying about, I had 14 cities in this save.
    Untitled-1.jpg

    Note: upkeep modifiers from promotions and unitcombats does not factor in for any of the units here as that is not recalculated for old saves. But I don't think the upkeep value would have been significantly different.
     
  10. Toffer90

    Toffer90 C2C Modder

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    Yeah, it bothered me that the vanilla code there just made a mush of it...
     
  11. ecawilson

    ecawilson Warlord

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    Don't know that we need it right now... but how hard would it be in the future to split those two groups (civilian and military) further? Right now, this gives a little more information than we already had, but not much. Knowing how much I am spending on criminal vs. seafaring vs. whatever would be nice. I would still like to be able to see the upkeep values for each unit, either in the build queue or on the map, but I assume those are just a mouseover and version or two away.
    In vanilla, the "base per population factor" was always 0.24 for everything. I didn't realize it was even different in C2C. What tag can I find the current value under?
     
  12. Toffer90

    Toffer90 C2C Modder

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    Open globalDefines.xml and you'll find the keys you're looking for at the top in a comment.
    Currently they are adjusted to be less than 1 gold per pop because most units still only have 1 gold upkeep, so population point tend to outgrow unit count in mature games.
    Any unit on the map has their upkeep cost in their tooltip already. on old saves you need to do a recalc for the base upkeep of existing units to be registered though. If their upkeep is zero it won't show a line telling you it has zero upkeep.
    Untitled-1.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2020
  13. Toffer90

    Toffer90 C2C Modder

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    In the city unit tab I could add a more final gold amount in their tooltips based on national modifiers and modifiers in the units unitcombats and free promotions.
    Right now it only has the base upkeep displayed in the tooltip of the build queue, unmodified by other factors.

    I may even include the free unit upkeep factor and check if the unit will cost anything at all if trained right now, kinda like the "actual" info seen on building yields/commerces...
     
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  14. ecawilson

    ecawilson Warlord

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  15. Esfera

    Esfera Chieftain

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    I think it would be a good thing letting you guys know that one of the wonders in the vanilla game, the Three Gorges Dam, is heavily damaged, perhaps to the point of destruction.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_China_floods#Three_Gorges_Dam

    It's argued that this is caused by both the rainy season in the region and cloudseeding efforts by China.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_seeding#China
    China is known for its investments in cloudseeding technology to temporarily fight air pollution, increase the generation of electricity, obtain a desirable climate and increase overall water reserves.
    However, since the late 60s, when the US started using cloudseeding as a weapon against North Vietnam, this technology is known to be extremely innacurate and sometimes the raindrop can exceed by a huge margin what was originally predicted, so it perhaps backfired somehow.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Popeye

    This started in June. But more information is still coming to light everyday, since China is so secretive about this kind of stuff.
     
  16. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    It was always considered a very dangerous project that the Chinese may have taken more risk on than they should've. If it fails, MANY lives could be at risk there.
     
  17. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    Will Shift!
    Well well well, Todays' change is lets really mess up some Civics shall we!
    They already did that. Just not to the extent you have now done.
    @Toffer90, so C2C becoming more and more like your Modmod "My Take on Stuff" now.

    After a year plus (actually 2 yrs+) of trying to get Civics, (especially the early to mid game Civics) as a set of functional and integrated systems, the worms are eating out the core again. :backstab: :wallbash: Now it is being driven home why every previous modder that started to take on the Task of Civic Balancing quit and left. And never returned! :hammer2:
     
  18. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    It was poorly named tags and mechanism which wasn't actually a difference between civil and military unit upkeeps so much as units applied to ALL units while military applied only to military units hardcoded to a civic we don't even use anymore. It was a broken system as it was before so this is really a correction to it.

    I've spent a lot of time looking at his design changes and they are not only sensical but a major improvement that corrects a lot of really frustrating problems in not being transparent to the player, let alone to us as modders. This really isn't a very deep shift, just a set of improvements. As with most improvements, some rebalancing efforts may be necessary, not only in civics but in traits as well.

    I kinda thought you had given up on the civics though since we haven't seen any changes from you in a while and you haven't been expressing any updates on planning efforts.

    I think a lot of those working on civics quit and gave up as much because it's rare that anyone's ever happy with anything anyone does around here.
     
  19. GreatLordofPie

    GreatLordofPie Warlord

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    Here's something I thought of that I might make into a little project since it shouldn't be too intensive.
    There's a notable lack of dedicated sea hunter units, mostly because there really isn't a lot to go off of in history. Really, the hunters of the ocean are fishermen and whalers.
    What I would do is make the early workboats both hunters and workers, and rename them. You'd have these dual use sea hunters/workboats for each era until Renaissance or Industrial, where it branches off to purpose built workboats (which will just remain the same after this point) and sea hunters.

    Basic breakdown by era:
    Prehistoric - Spearfisher
    Ancient - Fisherman
    Classical - Angler
    Medieval - Piscator (?)
    Renaissance - Whaler
    Industrial - Trawler
    Atomic - Fish Factory
    Information - Aquaculturalist

    It would also be pretty cool if there was an Ancient era ahistorical domestication event for sea mammals, and I think that would synergize well with this layout
     
  20. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    I like it!
     

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