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Caveman 2 Cosmos (ideas/discussions thread)

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Caveman 2 Cosmos' started by strategyonly, Sep 3, 2010.

  1. raxo2222

    raxo2222 Time Traveller

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    I meant that Joseph has hard time understanding seemingly extensive changes, that don't change anything in game.
    That is some concepts are simply too hard for some people.
     
  2. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    You are becoming offensive with your lack of understanding and lack of respect for others. And your erroneous assumptions, especially towards me. I will ask, tell you this just One Time, Do Not do it again. Understand?

    With military, junior college, and full time college I have over 200+ hours of completed course work. With a 3.55 grade avg. I do not have a degree though because of finances and switching majors from Computer and Information Sciences to Math Education. While at the same time raising a growing family of 4 children.

    You are a bit of an *ss raxxo and you need to realize that. I have warned you so I will say no more.
     
  3. Toffer90

    Toffer90 C2C Modder

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    The unit upkeep system rewrite did cause changes noticeable in-game, that was inevitable, though I tried to set the xml values so that the change would be small, though again I didn't spend too much time on that as the xml changes were not the focus of the modification work I was doing, but a necessity created by the code rewrite.
     
    raxo2222 likes this.
  4. raxo2222

    raxo2222 Time Traveller

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    I just meant technical changes to mod, not everything. Otherwise you wouldn't argue with TB and others.
    Everyone is good at something and bad at something else.

    Also my English isn't very good, so sometimes I can sound much harsher, than I try to say.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2020
  5. ecawilson

    ecawilson Warlord

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    Thank you for moving the Unit Upkeep Modifications thread, Browd (not using @, because a mod doesn't need more spam).

    There is a famous book (not necessarily high literature, but it is one of the more well known examples of this principle, so I will use it) by the name of The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. The book starts out with the catastrophe of a man's house being destroyed by the town council. It was for a good reason (or maybe not?), but it was still the man's home. The notice had been posted, and the council said that if he had objections he should have spoken up much sooner... but the posting was somewhere that the man would rarely go (the cellar of the planning office), and certainly wouldn't expect a notification of his home being torn down to be found there. In the second chapter, we find that basically the same catastrophe is happening to the entire earth.

    I'm going to suggest here, whether any change is good or not, necessary or not, that posting the change and making sure all engaged parties were aware how it was impacting their work before it goes live is a better long term strategy for development of this mod. On the other hand, it is not a programmer's job to act or think like a project manager. I don’t know whose job it is, but I certainly don’t think it is @Toffer90 ‘s.

    I can think of a few ways that can happen more efficiently here, but I am not running the show. I just want to point out that heated discussion and lost goodwill is not always due to personality differences or deep disagreements. Sometimes it is because the manager is distracted. Or, sometimes, the manager is unable through no fault of their own.
     
  6. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    hmm... Yellow...
     
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  7. ecawilson

    ecawilson Warlord

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    lol
    Yes. Shall I expect to next find you lying in the mud, in front of the yellow bulldozer?
     
  8. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    If I haven't been whisked off to the Pub for an even more difficult discussion, yes.

    I personally try to keep announcements going on my projects and although I'm not guiding the actions of others, I would request that the team do try to make their project plans known as soon as they are known to themselves - as much as possible anyhow. If we're going to do something major, we should probably make it clear and open things up to the ability for others to voice disagreements. That said, I also understand how thoughts on a subject can demand immediate action. This team is not under a strong concept of authoritarian project management unless conflicts demand it. I do, however, try to make sure I read every single post here and would hope that other team members also strive to stay on top of what's going on in every corner of the C2C forums.
     
  9. ecawilson

    ecawilson Warlord

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    My experience is that a project manager brings value. And that a bad ("authoritarian"?) project manager ruins it for the rest of us.
    My experience is also that, when it is everyone's job, it is no one's job.
    My experience also tells me that it is pretty much just project managers, or those tasked with a PM's job (if not title and pay), that think of making sure these sorts of communications happen and are effective.
    And my experience tells me that, when no one takes the role of manager, or takes the time to make sure that communication is happening, individual commitment and engagement are reduced or lost. In both commercial and volunteer endeavors.

    But, my experience may not be relevant here. There is always a chance I will be gone in a week. So the best I can hope is that this is read for what it is: a tip from a well meaning fan of your work, and not derision from an overbearing interloper.
     
    JosEPh_II likes this.
  10. Buffalo Solider

    Buffalo Solider Chieftain

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    I downloaded latest version of caveman2cosmos and haven't changed anything about mods.
    I don't know how to check that, but my changelog starts with :
    # CHANGELOG

    ## v40.1.1351 - 2020-02-11

    So I'm using 40.1.1351 I guess.
    I'm using defaultly-configured wine on linux tho. That might also add up to problems. I think whole thing might be too heavy for my PC. Menus with lots of icons from all epochs usually freeze me for 1 - 3 seconds, in some menus times are much worse. But when I was playing I had no performance issues. A lot of buildings are not avaiable yet, so not that much icons to display, and game alone in itself is working fine, moving units, clicking turn displaying map is delay-free.

    Entering map editor and revealing lots of tiles is when my problems begins and clicking something in pedia or opening menu with all buildings/units - this is where my problem lay. I guess city menu have even more data to process than just icons of buildings.

    What's also interesting - adding new unit for country reveals terrain for it an is delay-free, but if I use build-in "reveal territory" brush it freezes for 30 seconds from click no matter if I use 1x1 or 7x7 brush. It's kind of weired than some simple things take more time than some more complex things.
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2020
  11. Toffer90

    Toffer90 C2C Modder

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    Buffalo Solider likes this.
  12. rwglaub

    rwglaub Prince

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    The building screen in WorldBuilder is very clunky. The old one was much easier to work with.
     
  13. Toffer90

    Toffer90 C2C Modder

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    I don't know how the old one was, nor how the new one is, so you gotta give some details if you want me to make any changes to it.
    As of yet, I've only rewritten the WB tech screen and the WB game option screen.
     
  14. rwglaub

    rwglaub Prince

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    In the old city screen you could click on a box for any number of things all at once and then save and close. On the new one you have to do one item at a time and then wait up to two minutes to do the next.
     
  15. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    Please screenshots really help here.
     
  16. Toffer90

    Toffer90 C2C Modder

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    I see, gives me an idea of what needs to be done, I'll put it on my todo list to revamp that WB screen.
     
    irishhombre likes this.
  17. lobosan

    lobosan Warlord

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    Followup: 2 autosaves per turn (civ4 ini autosave and C2C Bug Late Save) seem to work well once I realized I had to modify the CivilizationIV.ini to autosaveinterval = 1. Thanks Toffer for the feature and for giving Late Saves a distinct name!
     
    MattCA likes this.
  18. Joij21

    Joij21 King

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    Since you guys are working on fixing excess gold in the later game, why don't you switch the majority of the gold producing buildings to commerce? That seems to be the actual source of the excess gold problem. In order to prevent research from skyrocketing all you would have to do is disable the gateway techs and make the negative education bonuses be active from the start. That way due to the lack of education sources you have in the beginning it will offset the new research from commerce. This would then be combined with the new new unit costs and maintenance to finally give the player the choice of whether they want research at 100% or tax to provide for the excess costs. Thus the only viable way to keep at 100% research would be to reduce the amount of cities and units you have.
     
  19. Snofru1

    Snofru1 Emperor

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    That sounds like a great idea! Having again the choice: Gold or research (or culture or espionage).
     
  20. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    While your arguments are sound, it's:
    1) no small review task to go through and make that sort of change
    2) the end of the experiment we're using in this mod to make gold have an identity outside of just commerce and thus being pretty much the same as research, such as it was in Vanilla, which seemed quite flawed really. If you wanted to up research, build a market.

    If the system is better balanced, you can still achieve the benefits you're talking about. The problem is that gold hasn't been hungry enough to force you to cut in to your research to feed it.

    However, I'm open to some compromise because I do feel like the commerce pool is a little too small so that once you need gold, you're usually compelled to be either all in or all out. SOME things being changed from gold to commerce might help, but we have to figure out thematically what the difference should be for only some buildings to work in commerce rather than gold.

    As it stands, gold from buildings is government income that is purely in terms of money and not just the body of potential work that can be devoted to by the people (commerce). As AIAndy has pointed out, RL economics isn't very easily modeled in any way with the basic structure we have of what 'value' is in these base game definitions of yields and commerces.

    If you can find a building theme that can take some third or even 1/2 of the gold production in the game and turn it into commerce instead, I'm interested to hear what one would propose could be thematically divorced from gold alone.
     
    cobbaut likes this.

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