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Caveman 2 Cosmos (ideas/discussions thread)

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Caveman 2 Cosmos' started by strategyonly, Sep 3, 2010.

  1. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    You can always look at the message log.
    It would be a little challenging to implement for the AI and also there is some space constraints on the city page since we already do have a lot going on there. It's hoped that the Win For Losing option can encourage tall play over wide as well. It's an interesting idea though.
    Sounds like that would mean they spread crime...
    And largely that's what ruffian units are, though we only have them manifesting as those loyal to the nation that trains them - perhaps more similar to mercenaries.
    I like the explanation as to how it would play in to demand a bit better standard defenses - that certainly would be a good reason for something along these lines. I'm kinda thinking it is similar to the criminal spawn mechanism and DH and I spoke of adapting that mechanism to a similar one for spawning ruffians around cities when crime got high. Yes, you can say that they rise up when not happy with the way things are, but the second trigger condition is that they feel rebellious enough and with high enough morale to think they can challenge the law and the government to get away with it, thus, exactly what high crime represents. We also have a plan to make excess unhappiness add to crime directly as well so one hand feeds the other a bit on that subject, therefore high crime levels would be a trigger that matches the concept. Right now when a criminal spawns they spawn within the city - if I adapted the code a notch I could make it possible for ruffian units to spawn through the same system and when they do, because they don't have the ability to blend into cities like criminals do, they could be placed just outside the city when they spawn, or in the least 'improved' plot within the city radius (or favoring a forest or whatever).

    This would make it much easier to implement. When I do get around to advancing crime stuff further, I can put some focus on this.
    There are fanatic units that would go well with this. I'd have to think a bit on how to best identify such a religious situation. I'm thinking something along the lines of a situation presented once the Ideas Project is further fulfilled.
     
  2. ermanay

    ermanay Chieftain

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    Eeehh yes that is true they should also spread crime but unhappiness comes from how... ruff and immoral they are. People just don't like to see them rampaging through their city chasing after women, robbing clerks, etc.
    I agree crime should spawn criminal units around the cities with high crime rates, that's an excellent idea but crime shouldn't affect if patriots rise up against a foreign invader or angry people rise up for whatever. I mean Polish people didn't start a guerilla fight against Germany because they were peeved about crime rates and Americans didn't started war of independence against the UK because there was a wave of crime across Columbia, both rebelled it was because they were unhappy with the situation. Polish rebelled because they were occupied and Americans rebelled because they were really unhappy. Also by an unhappy city, I don't just mean a city that has 1 or 2 angry citizens, I mean the majority of citizens in the city are unhappy. In a city of 6 if 4 are angry that should be enough to embolden the angry folk and lead them to the arm themselves. However, a high amount of crime coupled with majority unhappiness should make the problem a lot worse. Oh, also unhappiness affecting crime is a great idea. Angry people usually don't say calm, they make life harder for everyone which makes more angry people, and when the angry people in the city becomes the majority it should lead to spawning partisans. So my idea is a crime isn't the direct reason for an uprising but a way the uprising can happen.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2020
  3. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    Which is crime.
    We already have that when cities are invaded.
     
  4. primem0ver

    primem0ver Emperor

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    LOL. Well he didn't help very much other than to get you a nice video. There is no such thing as a Mormon "shrine". They have Temples, meetinghouses (churches), historic sites, and visitor centers. I grew up Mormon and have been one for most of my life. (I suppose a Temple is considered a shrine... but they don't call them that and there are over a hundred of them). Technically I still am one though my actual beliefs have become far less dogmatic and more open minded than most "Mormons" which is why I tend to distance myself a bit in the last few years. I am not going to be picky or offended over incorrect names but if you want the best name for a historically unique Mormon building, the "Sacred Grove" really is the iconic Mormon historic site that is the equivalent of all the other unique religion buildings. The Sacred Grove is exactly what is portrayed in the video (which I saw a myriad of times when I was growing up).
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2020
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  5. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    :lol: You need to take this up with @Dancing Hoskuld , who iirc is Buddhist. Not my area of concern. ;)
     
  6. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    @ermanay ,

    Sounds like you have a modmod in the making. Make it so and put it in the Modmod subforum and see if it gains traction/attention. That's how I got on the Team. That and being a long long time tester/supporter for this Mod from @strategyonly .
     
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  7. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    All religions require a shrine - it's a game definition building that stands for the most central edifice of the religion that can only be placed in the holy city by a prophet and unlocks much of the majority of the benefit of the religion for the owner of the holy city. Whether mormonism or any other religion considers itself to have a shrine in RL is irrelevant to the need to give it one in the game.
     
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  8. Dancing Hoskuld

    Dancing Hoskuld Deity

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    Mormanism was a work in progress. There were some huge changes in the works but RL happened and the person I was working with left. They were the ones defining what the buildings etc should do. The initial take was based on what all religions had at the time. We were working on many new ideas including the idea that missionaries may not be a one use thing, or in this case a missionary that returns home can become a different unit.

    Civ IV uses Shrine, Cathedral, Monastery and Temple to define the "level and function" of the religious buildings. In Civ IV but not mods "Shrine" means a building that can only be built in the founding city of the religion.
    Almost but not quite accurate. You have to have a Holy City. This is where the religion is founded. All the buildings are actually optional. You don't have to have a Shrine, but as you say it is the way the majority of the benefits and affects of the religion are modeled in game.
     
  9. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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  10. Leyrann

    Leyrann Deity

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    I hope this is the thread to ask questions (seems like it, considering it's length), if not, then sorry for posting in the wrong place.

    While I really like the idea of C2C, I find that the mod itself is simply 'too big' for me. Is there another, similar mod that has the same idea of expanding the base game in all directions, but on a scale where a playthrough on a very large map would only cost 100, maybe 200 hours?
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2020
  11. raxo2222

    raxo2222 Time Traveller

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    Try Rise of Mankind A New Dawn.
     
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  12. Toffer90

    Toffer90 C2C Modder

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    Save request from community:
    I need a save where a plot flip-flop between owned and neutral when ending turn over and over again.
    I intend to get rid of this glitch, and it would be easier with a save where the glitch is readily available.
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2020
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  13. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    Your problem s not map size but Game Speed selected. Stop using our Longest Games speeds. Play faster to moderate Game Speeds , ie Normal (2000 turns) thru Marathon (8,000 turns). You will have much better chance to reach late stages/eras of this mod on a Huge or Giant map.

    Perhaps you are playing Pit2015's scenario. If so it is an outlier to how C2C plays.

    While it is a good to decent Mod for BtS is does not have the depth C2C provides.
    I have seen this often in the past. If I see it again I will provide you a save game.
     
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  14. tmv

    tmv Emperor

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    Pirates or hostile nations can blockade ports, and tiles belonging to hostile nations can also block trade routes.
     
  15. primem0ver

    primem0ver Emperor

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    Right. I totally understand the functional concept and have since I started playing. I am just pointing it out because most "shrines" in the game are not called "shrines" and LDS people would probably be the last people to call it that. Particularly because it isn't a building or even man-made (even if I accidentally alluded to this earlier). For a while there has been a path built so that people can visit as well as a visitor center close by to explain its importance in LDS history but it was just a spot in the woods where the founder is believed to have been visited by God. It is simply a known location in the woods of upstate NY. I'm not upset about it at all. I am just curious about the oddity of its appearance given that your video is so specific and very "old." (That film is from the 70's if not earlier). I was surprised to see it after all this time (though I supposed it is possible that someone has gone through the trouble to capture it from the old reel to reel films from whence it came). It just seems like a lot of trouble to give you the video of such a paramount "site" in LDS history and then not supply you with its name.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2020
  16. primem0ver

    primem0ver Emperor

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    Agreed. We seem to be coming out of the woodwork after hiding all these years huh?
     
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  17. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    Was my understanding that an LDS member came in and redesigned the whole thing recently.
     
  18. raxo2222

    raxo2222 Time Traveller

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    That redesign sits in unloaded mods folder.
     
  19. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    @Toffer90 , @Thunderbrd , @MattCA , @raxo2222 , et, al, Some observations since Toffer's Unit maintenance coding came into play.

    Preface: I was going to adjust some of the late Classical and Medieval Civics but kept noticing the AI is always short on Gold in their Treasury.

    This is a concern because if I tighten the Civics up in regards to Maint costs the AI will and does go further in the wrong direction for having a sufficient Treasury. But if I loosen some of the Manit Costs the Player will significantly out produce the AI in overall Gold ie Treasury. More than what I have now.

    Below in a series of Diplomacy Screen shots showing the Treasury levels of all the AI I have Met in this particular current game. Game is on Emperor Diff, Normal GS, with Standard Traits with only Positive Pure Traits allowed. So all AI are not battling negative traits and thus be hindered in that regard. Space Race as Victory condition. Most AI do lead me in Tech. But I can buy most of the time the Tech I need . Same for resources. Example lost my iron Mine to Culture expansion from an AI. So instead of only having Copper weapons I bought Iron Wares and Iron Ingots from the AI that had more than 1 of each.

    My Treasury is 57K with almost 2000 :gold:/turn. The AI from the screen shots you will see is working with less than 10% of what I have.

    Perhaps the AI is too burdened now with these increased Unit Maint cost? My play says they are. But I also know there is another Global setting that also affects the AI's treasury. T-brd under Pit2015 insistence changed that Global to 40. I do not know if changing this would help or hinder the AI further. (I have to find the Global setting again.)

    So any observations or input you can add would be helpful.

    What still makes this an interesting game is the Culture border wars for tiles. And keeping the AI from DoW'ing me. Greasing palms is easy enough to do that. And I can still develop a sufficient sized army. I was placed on the most populated continent and was cut off by 2 of the AI rather quickly. Still I managed to have 16 cities.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Sep 16, 2020
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  20. Toffer90

    Toffer90 C2C Modder

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    @JosEPh_II : throw me that save if you don't mind.
    The AI is doing better in most saves I've looked at, so analyzing your save may be interesting.
     

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