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Caveman 2 Cosmos (ideas/discussions thread)

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Caveman 2 Cosmos' started by strategyonly, Sep 3, 2010.

  1. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    Here you go.

    I still wonder why T-brd allows Size matters Mil Units to have only a 70% cost vs Regular Non SM Mil units. I don't see the reasoning behind it. And to me a 30% savings, that would make a big difference in Mil Unit Maint costs.
     

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  2. Toffer90

    Toffer90 C2C Modder

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    That value is not related to unit maintenance, only related to their hammer cost.
    Unit maintenance is pretty much the same with SM as without.

    I think his reasoning was that SM games will get less units on the map due to both human and AI tending to merge units more than they split them, so he wanted units to be produced faster to get a similar unit count balance. I personally don't see the point in having a different unit hammer cost with SM than without SM.
     
  3. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    I know that if I were a new player to C2C and was considering SM, that if I found out that the build cost was 30% cheaper than Not playing with SM I would think SM was the way to play.
     
  4. Toffer90

    Toffer90 C2C Modder

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    @JosEPh_II: The AI are doing better than you financially in your save.
    The gold amount they are willing to trade is surprisingly low though.
    I'll investigate if there's any potential bugs introduced lately in the code responsible for that. Perhaps it was converted wrongly when we removed the greater gold thingy.

    Attached is the financial situation for all the players in your save.
     

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  5. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    I have not read your whole post thoroughly so I'm not sure if I'm commenting in a truly meaningful way here but to clarify, this global was about indicating to the AI when it's got problems enough to want to hold back on training more and particularly on settling more cities. I'd have to re-research the setup because I cannot remember if higher is more or less permissive. Anyhow, it's an 'alert we're having financial trouble' setting and changes its decisionmaking at key junctures, perhaps not applied even as widely as it should be if we can see AI players overwhelming the game with unit counts. Either that or late game simply has too much gold income potential to ever hold them back from further unit training. I eventually plan to not have them just train out units to the fullest extent of their budget but be concerned more with what the units are for and how much of that they should try to maintain as a first priority of consideration - then hold back if gold problems exist. That will be part of my coming AI overhaul efforts but I'm not sure how much it will apply to the core AI as it stands - I do hope to make my overhaul capable of eventually handling all options in or out of play so once complete, which would take a while, and well tested, I intend for it to potentially completely rewrite unit AI as it is now. I just know that for a while it will be in a development state that won't be perfected for some time and maybe along the way I can find some problems and correct them in the existing core AI setup. Where this global is used and where it isn't (and what it really should be set to) might be something to look at along the way.
     
  6. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    That would be an unfortunate side effect of the need to have the game be more capable of creating more units for defensive purposes in SM. The other way to see this, and the one that is accurate, is that you'll need to produce a lot more units in SM than you would in normal play - probably a lot more than this adjustment even accounts for ultimately.
     
  7. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    Interesting! But why does this particular screen not give their Treasury amount? All along I thought that was what I was seeing when in the Diplomacy screen, their Treasury. Learned something seriously new today. Yikes! :p

    More things now to consider when making tweaks to the Civics.....hmmm.......

    So, for example, if I choose to up the Homeland Maint. costs for Monarchy Civic I actually have some leeway now. And going from a 3% to a 5% would not devastate the AI at all. Same for Dist to Palace and Num Cities maint costs.

    So if I up their costs I would still need to offset this with a small perk in research or culture or GP production , etc. to entice the player and AI to move on to the next newer Civic in a category when it becomes affordable or practical. Yet allow the older Civic in a category to still br uesable in certain game play circumstances. Kind of a ying and yang type thing. :p
     
  8. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    I'll have to take you at your word on this. Cause I always perceived that once you built/produced the units needed to merge to a large size that the overall cost was then lower. Wrong or right perception?
     
  9. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    Correct. But the 30% cost reduction is to production cost. You need more defensive units to be merged in each city or when attack stacks come rolling in, you won't be prepared thus in SM you need to produce a lot more units than you normally would. Really it's more for the AI's sake than the player because it doesn't yet know how to make a stronger military specifically in its front cities only and how to yet train up mobile city defense bolstering stacks - that's all part of what I'll be trying to improve on very soon. It might be something where once the AI is a bit better at managing its military resources, we won't need that reduction in cost at all. Maybe.

    As for the cost reduction in terms of gold upkeep/maintenance cost, I'm leaving choices mostly to Toffer there at this point because I think he's been able to get the merging to get them to cost more directly what they should than the proxy mechanisms we were using, but I do still hope to see larger merged units be a bit less than they would be if split up. I think he gets the reasoning on that and if he's made some adjustments there, cool.
     
  10. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    We've been trying to give you more maneuverability and agility room to vary things without it being as much just a ladder as we can. Good to see you're achieving a better understanding of how this can work :)
     
  11. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    How did you get these screens of the AI? World builder? If not then how?
     
  12. Toffer90

    Toffer90 C2C Modder

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    1. ctrl+shift+alt+D (initializes python debug mode)
    2. shift+Z (initializes dll debug mode)
    3. Enter financial advisor
    4. change player in top-left drop-down menu.
     
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  13. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    I've tried to also make each advancement in each Civic category have an ability to mesh with the Civics of it's time and or related usage. I personally like what I have achieved with the Civics from beginning thru the mid Classical era. After Ren Era they are mostly with some changes over the past 3 years still what So had them as. And the Late Game Civics of pepper have also only had a cursory and quick tweaks where tings were obviously way too much or too little. More the former than the later as he used Hydro's scale of making each Civic jump 5 or 10%. To where we had and may still do (in some rare cases) Civics with 50% increases in what they cover. I may get to those yet in my life time. :p :rolleyes:
     
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  14. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    Got to write this down!
     
  15. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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  16. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    How many more of these neat little tricks does Toffer90 have up his sleeve???? :cool:
     
  17. Lord Meire

    Lord Meire Chieftain

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    So I know there's a lot of technical reasons that keep tile-based games like civ from having round maps, but I thought of a possible way to spoof roundness in C2C by piggybacking on a feature that already exists: Change the movement costs of the different ocean types. Normal costs in temperate oceans, higher costs in tropic oceans, and lower costs in polar oceans.
     
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  18. GreatLordofPie

    GreatLordofPie Warlord

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    It would be cool if Neanderthal NPC cities that last until the ancient or even classical era would transfer to the actual Neanderthal civ for a bit of that althistory that C2C has really embraced. In my current game, the Neanderthal NPCs took out two civs on the other side of my continent quite early in the prehistoric era and now have two ~10 pop cities at around 50 AD that are basically tying up any barbarian presence.
     
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  19. Blazenclaw

    Blazenclaw eccentric eclectic

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    Similar thing happened in my most recent game; up through mid Ancient or so the largest cities in the world were Neanderthal and barbarian, so I could see that being wrapped up into the Barbarian Civs option.
     
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  20. solops

    solops Warlord

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    I have all the Civs. Civ4 with C2C is still the best of all. I have been gone since about v38. Would anyone please give me an idea of what has changed since v38? Are there any must-have add-on mods/sub-mods now?
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2020
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