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Caveman 2 Cosmos (ideas/discussions thread)

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Caveman 2 Cosmos' started by strategyonly, Sep 3, 2010.

  1. Blazenclaw

    Blazenclaw eccentric eclectic

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    The SVN version is intended to be feature-testing, no? It means there will occasionally be things that come through, or changes that may have ramifications that aren't visible without many hours of playtesting, which may be better spent working on other bugfixes or features. Related...
    It is difficult to run full-on test games, but certainly it's not only code that's looked at [note: for all of this, I'm only speaking for myself, I'm sure other devs have differing philosophies]. For instance, in my build/improvements change last week, before pushing to git master I played ~100 turns of a new game and ~20 turns of a midgame save to make sure it worked on new & saved games and the intended changes appear as normal. In order to truly observe the full feel of terrain impacting where you can build routes, it would be required to play a minimum of 3 eras - prehistoric into medieval - which leads to me choosing either to mod, or to play, since I don't have time to do both (and I'm generally choosing mod). So, feedback from players on changes like this is appreciated, hence, the SVN version of feature testing.
    Of course, that testing did also happen to miss a ctd accidentally introduced that was quickly found by SO, but I fixed it same day.

    So back to xml tweaking here - yes I played some turns to make sure the values are in the game and working mostly as I expect them to, but the fine-tuning balancing of is left to players to complain or suggest further improvements. I can't say anything about the SAFE_GOLD_PERCENT, didn't see that being worked on, but that's at least how I approach making these fixes/changes.
     
  2. strategyonly

    strategyonly C2C Supreme Commander

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    what is the advantage/disadvantage of keeping cities close or further apart, ie: that 3 tile stuff??
     
  3. raxo2222

    raxo2222 Time Traveller

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    Cities further apart - better performance as less cities are on map, and they can use more land for themselves.
     
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  4. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    A given plot can only ever be worked by one city. Plots are usually more powerful than specialists, and generally the only way to gain (significantly) more maximum food, which can again gain more population and thus more specialists.

    If you want a city that has as much power in terms of yield output as possible, so as to take wider fuller advantage of yield and commerce modifying wonders, as well as a city that can get as much production as is possible so you can focus your XP output boosts into that city to make your primary military production city, giving such a city as many plots it can work is how to maximize the overall strength of these boosts into as centralized locations as you can.

    HOWEVER, if you place a bunch of cities in close to each other, each city will be individually weaker but they all get the benefits of all the many buildings that create that baseline of yield and commerce production per city. Once established, every city should pretty much give a strong return on the investment into it from upkeep and settling investment.

    So from a nationwide economic outlook, a bunch of cities packed in close can get a higher return for the amount of land used and there is also the ability to send units from one city to support another city faster. Not worrying so much about getting the MOST out of every unit by putting all your xp gains into one city and having that city be the one responsible for almost all your military, you can spread out your military production, get lower quality units, but perhaps a lot more of them in a smaller amount of time.

    Options like Unlimited Wonders can strongly support using only about 3 core cities, giving those core cities as much land to work as they can possibly get, and having them responsible for building all wonders and military (specialized in land/naval/hunting perhaps and using the hunting city for quickly training other fill in defender units quickly) under this approach is very strong - of course your game is nearly immediately done if you let them get taken. Then after your core cities you could start to just plant as many economic battery cities tightly together as you can for research speed and so on but this CAN add up in num city maintenance costs too.

    If you don't have Unlimited Wonders on, it can be even more valuable to have your cities ALL widely spaced because each must make full advantage of all the wonders they can build - just gets a lot harder to plan and you have to stay even more decentralized and try harder to specialize in what wonders you choose go where.

    If you just pack in cities, you aren't going to win wars with the quality of your units as much as the quantity of them so might as well not bother to even try to centralize XP gains anywhere and just be ready to have to train a lot more units to guard a lot more cities with a lot less levels each so they'll get hurt by the stronger quality armies, but they can also be assembled VERY quickly and if you're willing to take lots of losses, you can overcome nearly any obstacle with the numbers alone, particularly if you are good at specializing your unit roles despite the reliance on quantity over quality.

    Wider spaced cities means you're catching more land with fewer cities to have to manage and the opposite is true as well so if you can settle very fast, a tight pattern might fit your game style well. When it comes to the ability to get a lot of overlapping air power, a tight formation can be a lot more defensible as well, though again it's possibly a quantity vs quality thing in the end and sometimes quality can take out a lot more than its fair share of opponents and by suffering fewer losses, they get to accumulate more XP and levels and eventually can become completely indominable against lesser quality units that tend to require replacements a lot.

    Anyhow, it's 2 very different approaches to the game is the main thing. I'd like to think we have it balanced so neither is truly superior to the other. Personally I prefer to centralize more power into fewer cities. I like to have the best of the best forces when I go to war - win with less of them - keeping upkeep costs minimal, getting the most out of the wonders I have, and having fewer cities to manage. However, I cannot argue that this is a BETTER way because a tighter packed nation has a LOT more economic batteries at work. I will often start with a wider spread core of cities and then let the AI decide where the rest of them are going to go and how close they will be, though if I'm still building out my core cities, I'm not at all against destroying those that are crowding those core ones.
     
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  5. strategyonly

    strategyonly C2C Supreme Commander

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    Great job on explaining, i usually play with WIDE margins of cities, just thought that was the right thing to do, but its nice having options, and thats what C2C is all about, well plus great people working on C2C and gameplay of course, thx.. SO..
     
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  6. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    Thank you for the clarification. And that you actually play some turns to see the effects.
     
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  7. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    A little searching in Pit's scenario thread would reveal the exact conversation/discussion you 2 had over this matter.
    Warning OT! :p
    As for memory, here is something I do to help keep mine. I drink coffee, but not just plain coffee. When I brew a pot in the morning (2 standard scoops of coffee for 10-12 cups) I add a teaspoon of tumeric, several dashes of ground pepper (which boost the effects of tumeric), a teaspoon of cinnamon, and a teaspoon of ground ginger. After the coffee is brewed I add 1 teaspoon of real butter and a dollop of raw honey. This combination of natural herbs and foods are all brain functioning and memory boosting ingredients that feed you brain cells and synapses. I also add a dash of half and half milk as the added cream along with the butter is real brain food and I like the taste too. :). Now when I have a 2nd cup instead of another teaspoon of butter I add a teaspoon of coconut oil in it's place. Coconut oil is rich in MCT another oil that helps brain functions among other benefits. I could just add it to the 1st cup but I like the difference in taste for the 2nd cup of coffee. It's subtle.

    I have been doing this for years now, as does the Mrs. :) ( I turn 69 in Feb. and the Mrs turned 67 this past Oct.)

    If you like coffee give it a try this way. Won't hurt you and will also help strengthen your immune system. Be Blessed.
     
  8. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    Thanks, but of course none of that is as valuable as quoting the actual conversation where we were discussing the actual numbers ;) I guess I was trying to say I don't have time to go back and actually refer to the conversation so I can't be sure now a year or two later of the actual numbers we were talking about. If you were trying to say you had just read it yourself, I'd believe that too.

    I do drink quite a bit of coffee of course, though maybe not with as much herbal chemistry involved :)
     
  9. strategyonly

    strategyonly C2C Supreme Commander

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    just tried it Joe, boy what a difference the cinnamon makes didn't add all the ingredients, don't have ginger, but geez taste good,, thx..SO. . not bad for an ole man, lol .
     
  10. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    You're very Welcome Boss. And have a Very Merry Christmas. :D

    Another old man tip I was taught by my grandfather. If you have heart burn or acid reflux when you lie down to go to sleep, then a hour or 2 before you go to bed take 1 tablespoon Apple cider vinegar with 1 tablespoon Lemon juice. Add a small amount of bottled water to dilute (1/4 cup is plenty), if you can't handle these 2 straight (sourpuss alert).:lol: I don't recommend city treated water because of the chlorine and fluorine/fluoride they add in (way too much). Unfiltered (Raw) Apple Cider Vinegar is actually better for you than filtered. But both will work for this belly problem.

    I also highly recommend you stop drinking Any Soda pop. It's addictive and overloads your pancreas with every bottle or can you drink.
     
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  11. margolloxx

    margolloxx Chieftain

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    I think I shouldn't be able to build the Department of water when i lack the ressources to build water pipes. Since i did i get spammed with "water pipes stopped functioning" messages every turn for every single city which is a bit annoying.
     
  12. raxo2222

    raxo2222 Time Traveller

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    Upload save, somehow free building code bugs on fresh water requirement.
     
  13. margolloxx

    margolloxx Chieftain

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    Here you go. It stopped happening every turn and became more kindof random now from time to time.
    With this save when going to the next turn it gave me "water pipes restored in Kyoto" which is where the Department of water is built as well.
    It is not the latest SVN version but fairly recent.
     

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  14. strategyonly

    strategyonly C2C Supreme Commander

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    :)Happy Holidays, SO!!!!
     
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  15. strategyonly

    strategyonly C2C Supreme Commander

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    How come now its over 2 million JUST to trade for a World Map from another civ??
     
  16. Osk21

    Osk21 Barbarian Killer win Peace thru War!

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    Wondering if anyone had given a 2nd thought to having a wandering Sasquatch and a swimming Loch Ness Monster into the game. I'll add to it a captured UFO/Alien that could randomly land on the map. Along the lines of elite Universities, could there be elite Hospitals like Mayo Clinic, Walter Reed and Johns Hopkins among many others? Lincoln's Land Grant University System and the University of Illinois Morrow Plots could also be Wonders. Other things that could be added might be The Nobel Prize, The Pulitzer Prize and an Academy Award. Make it so a ship would need to find the Galapagos Islands in order to discover the Theory of Evolution. I would also be interested to know if anyone could create a never build que. A solution to what to do about runaway gold. Happy Holidays to all!
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2020
  17. strategyonly

    strategyonly C2C Supreme Commander

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    Can someone pls increase the str of the Arsonist by 1 or maybe 2, it is a unless unit now, or at least increase the bombardment area some how ..
     
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  18. strategyonly

    strategyonly C2C Supreme Commander

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    "Happy New Year!!"
     
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  19. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    I believe it's a bit lower now than the unit plan will have it once implemented.
     
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  20. sunrisereader

    sunrisereader Warlord

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    I am still using them despite their low strength, they are one of the first units that can reduce city defenses without needing to win an attack to survive and can be healed with the same healers the rest of the siege stack(often at that point swordsmen).
    But they never attack till the point there are only dogs and law enforcement units left in a city so they are specialists.
     
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