Caveman 2 Cosmos (ideas/discussions thread)

[Hydromancerx]

2. Well something like a spy but can attack units. Thats why i had a ? next to UnitCombat Recon. Before Tribalism i think?

Hmm Well if its going to be that early it should not be before Tracking I think. Maybe around Hunting or Warfare maybe? Or even like it with Poison Crafting to give that tech some more purpose. What do you think?

And while we are on the subject of new units could you make 2 new units? One would be a "Trained Mammoth" unit made from the Mammoth in the subdue animal mod. This unit would only be build-able if you had the Mammoth Trainer Wonder in your city. I am thinking the stats would be a little stronger than the elephant and maybe even has the Tundra Promotion already.

And the 2nd unit would be the "War Mammoth" which would b3 made from the NWA Varietas Delectat Stuff. It would be an upgrade to the "Trained Mammoth" once you discovered Construction. It too would be much like the War Elephant except a bit stronger and again already have the Tundra Promotion.

So can you make it? Please?

EDIT: Here are some stats ...

Trained Mammoth
Cost: 70
Req Tech: Megafauna Domestication
Req Building: Mammoth Trainer [Wonder]
Unit Type: Mounted
Strength: 6
Movement: 1

Special Abilities

• Doesn't Receive Defensive Bonuses
• +25% City Attack
• Double Movement in Tundra
• Double Movement in Ice
• No Terrain Damage in Tundra
• No Terrain Damage in Ice
• +20% Tundra Attack
• +20% Ice Attack
• +50% vs Catapult
• +50% vs Trebuchet
• +50% vs Mounted Units
• Upgrades to War Mammoth

-----

War Mammoth
Cost: 100
Req Tech: Megafauna Domestication AND Construction
Req Building: Mammoth Trainer [Wonder]
Unit Type: Mounted
Strength: 9
Movement: 1

Special Abilities

• Doesn't Receive Defensive Bonuses
• +25% City Attack
• Double Movement in Tundra
• Double Movement in Ice
• No Terrain Damage in Tundra
• No Terrain Damage in Ice
• +20% Tundra Attack
• +20% Ice Attack
• +50% vs Catapult
• +50% vs Trebuchet
• +50% vs Mounted Units
• Upgrades to Cuirassier

-----

I think this sound better. Its slightly stronger and more expensive than an Elephant Rider or War Elephant but gets defenses for ice and tundra rather than forest and jungle. Plus has double movement in ice and tundra.

This sound doable?

 

[Thunderbrd]

That brings me back around to re-suggesting the Rhino Rider... I could put some statistics together for the suggestion if you like.

The assassin idea would play well into one of the modifications I'd like to make to one of the animals... heh heh.

 

[strategyonly]

1. Hmm Well if its going to be that early it should not be before Tracking I think. Maybe around Hunting or Warfare maybe? Or even like it with Poison Crafting to give that tech some more purpose. What do you think?

2. And while we are on the subject of new units could you make 2 new units? One would be a "Trained Mammoth".

And the 2nd unit would be the "War Mammoth".

This sound doable?

1. I originally thought of Warfare, but your idea of Poison made it sound better.

2. Definitely. (see pics)

 

[Hydromancerx]

@strategyonly

Whoa! Those look super awesome!! You rock!! This makes that wonder and the tech even more valuable now. Goo thing its like super rate for an elephant resource to spawn near tundra. Though I suppose with the whole placing resources thing you could probably make your worker place elephants near a city that has tundra in the vicinity.

At any rate whatever lucky civ gets to build these will have a major advantage when fighting in the polar regions.

I was also thinking maybe we should have a camel unit too that can only be built if you have a "Camel Farm". This would be different from the Arabian Unique unit. Its advantage would be like the mammoth in that it could survive in a specific terrain type better than horses. In the camel's case it would dominate in the desert. I have no idea on specific stats. Any ideas?

EDIT1 & 2: Ok here are some stats for the Camel unit ...

Camel Rider
Cost: 60
Req Tech: Stirrups
Req Building: Camel Farm
Req Resource: Incense
Unit Type: Mounted
Strength: 7
Movement: 2

Special Abilities

• Immune to First Chance Strikes
• Doesn't Receive Defensive Bonuses
• Can Withdraw from Combat (15% Chance)
• -20% City Attack
• -50% Jungle Attack
• -25% Forest Attack
• +50% Desert Attack
• Double Movement in Desert
• No Terrain Damage from Desert
• Upgrades to Camel Knight

Camel Rider - Graphic
http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=14828

-----

Camel Archer
Cost: 60
Req Tech: Mounted Archery
Req Building: Camel Farm
Req Resource: Incense
Unit Type: Mounted
Strength: 7
Movement: 2

Special Abilities

• 1-2 First Strikes Strikes
• Immune to First Chance Strikes
• Doesn't Receive Defensive Bonuses
• Can Withdraw from Combat (20% Chance)
• -50% Jungle Attack
• -25% Forest Attack
• +50% Desert Attack
• Can Perform Ranged Attacks
• Accuracy 60
• Double Movement in Desert
• No Terrain Damage from Desert
• Upgrades to Camel Gunner

Camel Archer - Graphic
http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=15632
OR
http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=15628

And then change the "Camel Archer" UU's name for the Arabian civilization to "Mamaluke" so we can tell what unit is what.

This makes them sort of like the Light Calvary and Horse Archer except not as good for some stats but better in other stats like the desert related ones. I hope there are models for both. I know at least the Camel Archer has a unit. he Camel Rider would have like a spear or sword I think.

-----

Camel Knight
Cost: 80
Req Tech: Armored Clavary
Req Building: Camel Farm AND Iron
Req Resource: Incense
Unit Type: Mounted
Strength: 10
Movement: 2

Special Abilities

• Immune to First Chance Strikes
• Doesn't Receive Defensive Bonuses
• -50% Jungle Attack
• -25% Forest Attack
• +50% Desert Attack
• Double Movement in Desert
• No Terrain Damage from Desert
• Upgrades to Camel Gunner

Camel Knight - Graphic
http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=14868

-----

Camel Gunner
Cost: 260
Req Tech: Steam Power AND Riffling AND Calvary Tactics AND Stirrup
Req Building: Camel Farm
Req Resource: Incense
Unit Type: Mounted
Strength: 26
Movement: 2

Special Abilities

• Doesn't Receive Defensive Bonuses
• Can Withdraw from Combat (30% Chance)
• -50% Jungle Attack
• -25% Forest Attack
• +50% Desert Attack
• Double Movement in Desert
• No Terrain Damage from Desert
• Upgrades to Early Tank

Camel Gunners - Graphic
http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=14832

---------------

EDIT3: I am not sure if you want to do this but there is a Camel Resource too. But since we reached the resource limit I have no idea what resource should even be removed. Bison maybe?

I also found a Camel animal in case it might be used in the Subdue Animals mod (if its not already included).

 

[strategyonly]

updated: 25 Dec 10, 1:15 am

Lots and lots of changes to the Prehistoric Age techs, plus tons of new buildings


Happy Saturnalia and

 

[rwglaub]

If you are going to add lot sof new buildings and techs, then may I suggest that the research times and build times be a bit shorter? Sometimes the build times in the earliest eras get a bit ridiculous...

 

[strategyonly]

If you are going to add lot sof new buildings and techs, then may I suggest that the research times and build times be a bit shorter? Sometimes the build times in the earliest eras get a bit ridiculous...

Have you played the NEW updated version If not then see, ok.

EDIT: This should be corrected in the BuildingClassInfo file:

Spoiler :

<BuildingClassInfo>
			<Type>BUILDINGCLASS_SACRIFICIAL_ALTAR</Type>
			<Description>TXT_KEY_BUILDING_SACRIFICIAL_ALTAR</Description>
			<iMaxGlobalInstances>-1</iMaxGlobalInstances>
			<iMaxTeamInstances>-1</iMaxTeamInstances>
			<iMaxPlayerInstances>1</iMaxPlayerInstances>
			<iExtraPlayerInstances>0</iExtraPlayerInstances>
			<bNoLimit>0</bNoLimit>
			<bMonument>0</bMonument>
			<DefaultBuilding>BUILDING_SACRIFICIAL_ALTAR</DefaultBuilding>
			<VictoryThresholds/>
		</BuildingClassInfo>

 

[rwglaub]

I'm playing it now. Gigantic Earth Map, Snail speed. Building times are OK, but techs take too long. I'm at 1500 BC and just got Tribalism.

Couldn't build Firepit. Got Firemaking but couldn't build it. Got Scavenging and couldn't builld Scavenging Camp. Firepit wasn't in the Civilopedia either.

 

[rwglaub]

My mistake. Fire Pit is in the Sevopedia, but it can't built.

 

[Antmanbrooks]

My mistake. Fire Pit is in the Sevopedia, but it can't built.

I have a similar problem with the Apiary in a game where I have ammended the techs slightly. The Apiary shows in the Civopedia as requiring Apiculture but can't be built and doesn't show on the tech tree? IF you figure out why it's happening on the Fire Pit please let me know so that I can fix my Apiary!

 

[strategyonly]

My mistake. Fire Pit is in the Sevopedia, but it can't built.

I have a similar problem with the Apiary in a game where I have ammended the techs slightly. The Apiary shows in the Civopedia as requiring Apiculture but can't be built and doesn't show on the tech tree? IF you figure out why it's happening on the Fire Pit please let me know so that I can fix my Apiary!

Are you'll playing on Vista's or XP's by any chance? Only thing it could be is lack of memory? (But if not, re-start your PC and try again they ARE there and can be built, trust me. Just make sure your using the 25 Dec version

Cause i have no problems with Win 7 they both show-up and are there and i have built them?

 

[Hydromancerx]

@strategyonly

Ok so I have only played from Prehistoric to mid Ancient on Snail speed and I have found the following bugs ...

1. I can still see Ivory resource (aka Elephants) in the beginning. Please change it so they only appear with "Scavenging" tech.

2. I noticed with all the new tech s the old techs that the old monastery go obsolete and upgrade into the school building while all the other techs don't do this. I am not sure which way you want to go. Back when Killtech was trying to "balance" things Afforess made them upgrade to the School building. However I personally liked it the old way were they never upgraded and you can have both Schools and Monasteries (like in real life). So rather than editing all the new techs I recommend that you edit all the old techs and have them not go obsolete like the new techs and not upgrade into the "School".

3. The whole plopping down livestock I think may be too powerful. I am really torn on this since I would hate suggesting taking out anyone else's mods since I would not like someone to say that to me. So perhaps there could be a way to balance it out without taking out that feature all together. Maybe if the Worker could not create but you would have produce a special unit that only makes a specific livestock resource and then it would consume it once it built it. And then have the unit only be able to be built in cities with that resource already in the city vicinity. This would make it a much more time consuming task to accomplish. And in turn I think balance it more.

4. Hmm, The apiary should have +2 gold not +2 commerce. I am not sure how we (mostly me) missed this.
-----

Now for the positive stuff ...

1. On Snail speed that the tech cost seems spot on. It seems to slow smoothly and is well balanced I think. I did not think my suggestion for the cost tweaking would work out first try but I think it is working really nice!

2. I really like the new adjustments to getting access to resources earlier. They don't seem to be too powerful, especially when you are so limited by either one city for very few.

My mistake. Fire Pit is in the Sevopedia, but it can't built.

You can build it if you learn "Fire Making" tech. And if you build an "Imu" it will replace the "Fire Pit". And I believe the "Fire Pit" goes obsolete with "Monotheism" tech or something like that.

 

[strategyonly]

@strategyonly

Ok so I have only played from Prehistoric to mid Ancient on Snail speed and I have found the following ...

1. I can still see Ivory resource (aka Elephants) in the beginning. Please change it so they only appear with "Scavenging" tech.

2. I noticed with all the new tech s the old techs that the old monastery go obsolete and upgrade into the school building while all the other techs don't do this. I am not sure which way you want to go. Back when Killtech was trying to "balance" things Afforess made them upgrade to the School building. However I personally liked it the old way were they never upgraded and you can have both Schools and Monasteries (like in real life). So rather than editing all the new techs I recommend that you edit all the old techs and have them not go obsolete like the new techs and not upgrade into the "School".

3. The whole plopping down livestock I think may be too powerful. I am really torn on this since I would hate suggesting taking out anyone else's mods since I would not like someone to say that to me. So perhaps there could be a way to balance it out without taking out that feature all together. Maybe if the Worker could not create but you would have produce a special unit that only makes a specific livestock resource and then it would consume it once it built it. And then have the unit only be able to be built in cities with that resource already in the city vicinity. This would make it a much more time consuming task to accomplish. And in turn I think balance it more.

4. Hmm, The apiary should have +2 gold not +2 commerce. I am not sure how we (mostly me) this.

-----

Now for the positive stuff ...

1. On Snail speed that the tech cost seems spot on. It seems to slow smoothly and is well balanced I think. I did not think my suggestion for the cost tweaking would work out first try but I think it is working really nice!

2. I really like the new adjustments to getting access to resources earlier. They don't seem to be too powerful, especially when you are so limited by either one city for very few.

The ivory is just that:

Spoiler :

<BonusInfo>
			<Type>BONUS_IVORY</Type>
			<Description>TXT_KEY_BONUS_IVORY</Description>
			<Civilopedia>TXT_KEY_BONUS_IVORY_PEDIA</Civilopedia>
			<BonusClassType>BONUSCLASS_RUSH</BonusClassType>
			<ArtDefineTag>ART_DEF_BONUS_IVORY</ArtDefineTag>
			<TechReveal>[B]TECH_SCAVENGING[/B]</TechReveal>
			<TechCityTrade>TECH_BONE_WORKING</TechCityTrade>
			<TechObsolete>TECH_INDUSTRIALISM</TechObsolete>

Yeah i was just going over the animal placement also, and found the attached

Did your Fire Pit and Apiary list and be built?

Also feel FREE and go into BuildingInfo and change what you want, but just send me a copy of the file so i can go over it, ok, thx., P.S. that includes any other file also. Otherwise i won't be able to proceed on any other changes.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Gah you posted. Ok re-posting edited response ...

4. Hmm, The apiary should have +2 gold not +2 commerce. I am not sure how we (mostly me) this. I also noticed in your screenshots that other buildings like the wheelwright have "commerce" and not "gold". Um what happend to my "commerce" to "gold" fixes?

5. Also I am not sure if this is a setting problem or what for me but I noticed in your screenshot that any tech that founds a religion will have that religion's icon for the tech icon instead of the default tech icon. Do you know how to change the settings so they don't do that?

EDIT:

1. Ok what the heck!?! Your right that should work. That is messed up. And you even have the right tag spelling. I have no idea. Grrrr!

Did your Fire Pit and Apiary list and be built?

My Fire Pit did, but I have not gotten Agriculture yet so I cannot say anything for the Apiary yet.

Also feel FREE and go into BuildingInfo and change what you want, but just send me a copy of the file so i can go over it, ok, thx., P.S. that includes any other file also. Otherwise i won't be able to proceed on any other changes.

Ok. I will check it out. I swear I fixed some of those things before when I edited the BuildingInfo last time. Note I am playing on a "pure" download version. I have not updated it at all with my newer mods (ex. Windmill, Watermill, etc).

 

[strategyonly]

Gah you posted. Ok re-posting edited response ...

4. Hmm, The apiary should have +2 gold not +2 commerce. I am not sure how we (mostly me) this. I also noticed in your screenshots that other buildings like the wheelwright have "commerce" and not "gold". Um what happend to my "commerce" to "gold" fixes?

5. Also I am not sure if this is a setting problem or what for me but I noticed in your screenshot that any tech that founds a religion will have that religion's icon for the tech icon instead of the default tech icon. Do you know how to change the settings so they don't do that?

Crap, i bet i used an older copy of the buildings EDIT: Yeppers i did, i will change them immediately.

5. Sorry.

Anyone that wants the NEW building changes see attached: (Its save compatible, so no worries there)

 

[Hydromancerx]

Crap, i bet i used an older copy of the buildings EDIT: Yeppers i did, i will change them immediately.

5. Sorry.

Anyone that wants the NEW building changes see attached:

1. Phew! I thought I was going crazy!

2. I can still edit the old Monastery Buildings if you want. Or do you want to change them? I mean what is you opinion on the issue? Either we need all of the Monastery buildings to upgrade to the school or have all of them not. Either way one of them has to be edited.

 

[strategyonly]

1. Phew! I thought I was going crazy!

2. I can still edit the old Monastery Buildings if you want. Or do you want to change them? I mean what is you opinion on the issue? Either we need all of the Monastery buildings to upgrade to the school or have all of them not. Either way one of them has to be edited.

Sure go ahead, i am still thinking about the Assassin stuff, and having a hard time figuring all of it out.

New buildings in the above attachment.

I think i will take out that animal placement as much as i like it, its just that the worker is building waaaaaay to many horse farms.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Sure go ahead, i am still thinking about the Assassin stuff, and having a hard time figuring all of it out.

New buildings in the above attachment.

I think i will take out that animal placement as much as i like it, its just that the worker is building waaaaaay to many horse farms.

1. I like the Assassin stuff. The more I think about the "Poison Making" tech the more I think that such a unit would be perfect.

2. Yeah. Obviously.

3. Ok. Sounds good. Its sad but I think its just too much. I never thought I would ever say that about a mod.

You are correct below, and thx.
Also you need to see alot of what Hydromancerx is doing: He is a great thinker:

4. Thank you!

5. So how about those camel units?

 

[strategyonly]

3. Ok. Sounds good. Its sad but I think its just too much. I never thought I would ever say that about a mod.



4. Thank you!

5. So how about those camel units?

3. Well i guess it has to be done.

4. YW The truth.

5. Can you get back to me on this after the New Year pls.(Unless you want to take a STAB at it) They sound good so its plausible.

 

[Hydromancerx]

5. Can you get back to me on this after the New Year pls.(Unless you want to take a STAB at it) They sound good so its plausible.

Will do (meaning waiting until AFTER new years for you to take a crack at it). I will get back to modding then too. I want to enjoy the latest version for a bit as well!