1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Caveman 2 Cosmos (ideas/discussions thread)

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Caveman 2 Cosmos' started by strategyonly, Sep 3, 2010.

  1. Koshling

    Koshling Vorlon

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2011
    Messages:
    9,254
    What svn rev did you start on?
     
  2. Sgtslick

    Sgtslick Emperor

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2002
    Messages:
    1,675
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Why don't the AI ever build that early wonder that gives +1 happy +1 health +1 xp (+50% build speed with cow etc) forget the name. Is this a symptom of not getting herds?
     
  3. Koshling

    Koshling Vorlon

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2011
    Messages:
    9,254
    Bull leaping? What makes you think it doesn't? (it's a national wonder)
     
  4. Menzoberranzan

    Menzoberranzan Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2009
    Messages:
    24
    Can aquatic animals be changed to work as land animals do?

    Example, I capture a bear and the subdued animal goes to the nearest city, providing no food or production, and I have several options on how to then deal with the animal, based on techs and building in that city.

    At the very least, I'd like the option to just butcher the sea animal (without gaining resources upon capture) rather than just deleting an unneeded unit, as is the current case. It might be nice if buildings such as fisheries, aquariums, sea parks, and the like could be built with appropriate techs.
     
  5. BlueGenie

    BlueGenie Emperor

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2009
    Messages:
    1,563
    If you look closer at the names of the sea animals you capture early in the game you'll notice that it's not an animal but a "Tale of xxxx". Later on, with some techs, you'll capture the actual animal.
    You can't really butcher a tale. *wink*

    Cheers
     
  6. Dancing Hoskuld

    Dancing Hoskuld Deity

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2004
    Messages:
    23,485
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Canberra, Australia
    After you have used all the Tales of... sea animals to build their myths you can convert them into culture and science. When you start capturing live sea animals there are things you can build but most of these happen after Marine Biology with only Fish Pens happening before.
     
  7. Sgtslick

    Sgtslick Emperor

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2002
    Messages:
    1,675
    Location:
    Melbourne
    o :blush: and here I was rushing for it and celebrating whenever I built it :lol:
     
  8. chmoosi

    chmoosi Warlord

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2008
    Messages:
    130
    I started the game yesterday after downloading the latest revision. I don't know what # it is as I can't find where to look it up. I was playing on epic speed, but otoh that's the speed I normally play on. Maybe I'll play another start later to see if the softness of the game is a repeatable phenomenon. Anyways I think the deity level could use some boosting with the difficulty
     
  9. strategyonly

    strategyonly C2C Supreme Commander

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2006
    Messages:
    20,538
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    MN
    I am a bit confused by this statement, is it supposed to be a -(negative) # or just a - (minus) sign there?? A_New_Dawn_GlobalDefines

    Spoiler :
    Code:
    <Define>
        <!-- Set to non-0 value to enable dynamic activation of unit graphics entities (reduced memory usage and growth) -->
        <DefineName>ENABLE_DYNAMIC_UNIT_ENTITIES</DefineName>
        <iDefineIntVal>-0</iDefineIntVal>
      </Define>
     
  10. BlueGenie

    BlueGenie Emperor

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2009
    Messages:
    1,563
    Hi guys.

    Here are a few things I've considered or noticed or tested. I am not sure where most of these would go in the forum so I am posting them here, in no particular order.
    I've only played on Eternal Game Speed and on Gigantic Map.

    Culture. With the changes to the game speeds culture is very low in comparison.
    Culture Percent in the Game Speed file does nothing as C2C has a designated culture levels file. At least that is the case when using Realistic Culture SPread. Not sure if that is the case without it but I think the added file still takes precedence. This might be why the culture levels have not changed despite being changed in the speed file.
    I have tested with these numbers on Eternal and they seem to be good:
    Fledgling 500
    Developing 2500
    Prominent 10000
    Refined 25000
    Elegant 100000
    Influential 250000
    Impressive 1000000
    Legendary 2000000
    That woujld make it like this on the other speeds (I have not converted anything lower in speed than Epic):
    Snail: 250/1250/5000/12500/50000/125000/500000/1000000
    Marathon: 150/750/3000/7500/30000/90000/300000/750000
    Epic: 100/500/2000/5000/20000/60000/200000/500000

    AI building Town Well is a waste when already having Fresh Water (lake or river).

    AI when under siege keeps drafting units, losing population in the city, while having stacks of units stationed on defensible positions between 1 and 3 plots away. Enough units in fact to be able to take out a smaller invading force (which is what I have been using as it has been enough even if it has been taking a long time instead).
    A couple of Explorers defending on a Hill, Forest, or Forested Hill means no Str 6 or lower units dare attack, so the player can sit and take their units off one by one with impunity. A quick fix might be to make Explorers (Recon Units at all) a lower priority for defending so that military units defend before them but that they still defend before animals and defenceless units.

    Hurry% from Hurry units seems a little low on Eternity. I have not checked any other speeds but on Eternity the hurrying is less than half of the hammer cost for a buildable hurry unit. Changing iHurryPercent from 16 to 22 or 24 would be better I think. That would mean for Snail 40-45 might be better, but I don't know as I've not played on Snail.

    Marksmanship Promotions II and III look like they have an OR instead of AND for Combat Promotions and the previous Marksmanship Promotions. This makes them available to Archer and Mounted Units before being eligible for Marksmanship I if one has not researched Mounted Archery yet.

    The sound for building Town Watch is that of a Town Clock???

    Pathing change is confusing more than anything. Holding the mouse button down one path is shown. Letting it go another one is chosen instead. I do prefer it sticking to the one it first shows or I, as a player, can get into problems due to not ending up where I want on the turn I want, or even pass within reach of an enemy. I don't care if my Worker units end turns on defensible plots, they can not defend anyway... I want them at their destination asap to start building. If I wanted them safe (in my own area) I'd give them an escort.
    Could we have an option, in BUG perhaps, to just take the fastest way and ignore other stuff, and us advanced players can use SHIFT to set a path we want through various points rather than getting suddenly surprised by a unit changing route after button release?

    The religious buildings that grant free promotions on build should perhaps also grant their free promotions on stay (bApplyFreePromotionOnMove) in the city where they are built too. Not sure about the various wonders and specific training buildings (Riding School among others). Would be by a case by case basis I suppose.
    This is IF C2C is planning on keeping the onmove promotions.

    This I've already suggested to DH but reposting it anyway.
    ((Myths science bonus could be phased out slower instead of all at once. Once animals can be fully used the science could be dropped in simulation of that once one knows most about something it's hard to learn more from it. Like Horse Myth with Equine Domestication, Camel with Camel Domestication, Birds at Poultry or Falconry (or have two different Bird Myths, Predator and Prey birds, and phase each out on the appropriate technology), Dogs at Canine Domestication (early, I know, start the phasing out early...), Animal Domestication for phasing out Cow/Bull, Pig/Boar, Goat Myths, and Trade with it's cage buildings for animals could phase out a few out that didn't get phased out earlier.))

    I see unescorted AI workers building in the wilderness at times. Mainly building Forts. Roads they keep an escort for mostly.

    Slavery Hurrying/Whipping with the growth times we have in C2C probably needs an overhaul. Reduced food stores instead of lost population, or takes a certain amount of Settled Slaves to do, or a mix of both, and unhappy/mad people, or course. Prime example of a "bad whipping" is a City Council hurrying (with 20% built already) on Eternity taking: 7 pop, 123hammer overflow, +1unhappy for 100 turns. This in a pop 15 city.

    Inflation isn't balanced for game speed as neither offset nor percent are at the right ratios. From Epic to Marathon only the Percent is changed, from Marathon through to Eternity the ratios are off.
    Turn wise the ratio is roughly, from Epic to Eternity: 2/3/5/10. Inflation Offset is as 2/2/4/6.67. Inflation percent is roughly as 2/3/5/9. I, at least, would prefer if they aligned a bit more with speed. On top of that the offset should have been higher than it is in Epic already, nearly matching the Growth and/or Research percentages (just under) . This leads to highly increased Inflation already in late Ancient game (30% or so). My suggestion would be to have:
    iInflationOffset as (from Epic through to Eternity): -350/-550/-900/-1800
    iInflationPercent as (from Epic through to Eternity): 14/9/3/2

    Cheers
     
  11. strategyonly

    strategyonly C2C Supreme Commander

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2006
    Messages:
    20,538
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    MN
    Fantastic input, i agree with the Well, i believe it should have a completely different balance now, that air pollution/disease is in the game also, the -3:yuck: (to me) is just outrageous. I NEVER build it.

    I dont like the new Slavery civic either, was alot better before, IMHO. Because it still exists even "today." (Remember even Spartacus was a "so called" slave.)

    Are you playing standard v24 or SVN version, because the AI is way different now in the NEWEST SVN.

    I also agree on the speeds, i believe ls612 is working on it, but its a slooow and hard process to go through, i once tried for 4 months, to no avail.:blush:

    The rest of the stuff you mentioned i will leave up to the the other EXPERTS.
     
  12. ls612

    ls612 Deity Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2008
    Messages:
    8,069
    Location:
    America
    @BlueGenie:

    Thanks for the tip on the offset, those were something I forgot to ever change except on Epic (JosEPh pointed it out to me while complaining about too little gold). That is a very valid concern, as having too much inflation too early WILL make the game unplayable, as was shown back in V22. I'll adjust the offset when I get back, and maybe also the percent, although that is more delicate, as a small change in the precent can mean a huge Gold shift in the mid to late game.
     
  13. BlueGenie

    BlueGenie Emperor

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2009
    Messages:
    1,563
    Newest SVN, almost anyway. Rev 3150 or so I think.

    Cheers
     
  14. Koshling

    Koshling Vorlon

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2011
    Messages:
    9,254
    Agreed. I'll see if I can figure out why it does sometime.

    Don't hold you breath for new options, but I would lik to fix it taking a different path to the on shown in the right click-and-hold (I'm not sure why this happens). If you have a save where this happens reliabl for a unit on a specified attempt to move it please post with instructions to eproduce and 'll see if I can figure it out.
     
  15. chmoosi

    chmoosi Warlord

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2008
    Messages:
    130
    Hello. I posted yesterday about the AI tech speed in Deity. I tried two more games today, one on epic and one on marathon. On both games I was able to obtain tech lead very early, somewhere in the prehistoric era. Something quite dramatic has happened to the AI tech rate and I feel that currently it is WAY too slow considering this is deity I'm playing.

    Also, on the second game I noticed that Portugal had built a big stack of about 15 clubmen / stone throwers. It was just sitting inside his borders doing nothing and Portugal's economy was in dire straits because of that (lol). My espionage showed that their beakers / turn was under 10. Attached is the save showing the stack.
     

    Attached Files:

  16. Koshling

    Koshling Vorlon

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2011
    Messages:
    9,254
    Can people PLEASE turn on BBAI logging (BUG options, logging tab, set BBAI log level to 3) and post AI logs for most of this stuff (save games are good too, but it takes several hours to analyse what's happening in a save game and since I get several per day and don't have on average more than a couple of hours per day most can never get looked at)
     
  17. ls612

    ls612 Deity Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2008
    Messages:
    8,069
    Location:
    America
    I added this to the stickied FAQ thread, hopefully people will actually read this and it won't get buried.
     
  18. Sgtslick

    Sgtslick Emperor

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2002
    Messages:
    1,675
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Posted an example here for you.
    http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=11687305&postcount=4
     
  19. Dancing Hoskuld

    Dancing Hoskuld Deity

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2004
    Messages:
    23,485
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Canberra, Australia
    Doesn't this mean that fresh water extends to the plots next to the city which are not next to a river or lake letting you farm those plots?

    I like this idea, but I thought we were only doing weapon and armour style promotions with that tag.

    Done, sort of, or not quite as you suggest. I may not have posted it yet. Sunday is family day.

    I like the idea of using Settled Slaves first when you "whip".
     
  20. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2010
    Messages:
    26,932
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    I don't see any real necessity to enforce that restriction. I actually support any type of promotion being allowed to operate in this manner. The way I see it, if a unit was made before a free promotion was generated by a building that came later, the unit would be put through some extra training if they were brought to the location where that training is available. It wouldn't really cost more as the unit itself is still employed by the state (unit upkeep cost) and subject to spending its non-battle time being instructed to do SOMETHING anyhow. The fact that it happens in the span of one turn is my only reservation but when I think about how long one turn usually is, my reservations diminish there.

    Plus, if we allow that to take place, it will eliminate my usual in-game need to destroy most of my early army so I can build one that gets the benefits of later buildings.

    I've been doing some thinking on the equipment promotions and I'm not entirely sure its necessary to include any additional expenses there either. Most of the buildings that would be imparting equipments aren't currently adding or subtracting gold anyhow, and there is some rationale for that along the same lines. The issue is a double edged sword really. When a building such as a forge or armorer has been empowered to add a new equipment type, yes, it would cost the state to upgrade their units, but also too the state would be able to gain a healthy amount of taxation from private sales of that new equipment as well. I believe we can thus assume it naturally balances out.
     

Share This Page