Caveman 2 Cosmos (ideas/discussions thread)

[BlueGenie]

Senate has no boost in money but Patrician does. In fact for pure income Patrician is the better of the two with both +1 per specialist and increased trade route amount and yield.
Slavery has boost in money too, +5% in all cities, Coinage does not and Coinage has +15% Inflation.
From No to Open Borders makes no difference in money unless NOT running on 100% Science. In your case you get some back from doing that change, but the loss from Patrician to Senate and from Slavery to Coinage is too much to handle.

The big thing to check is Inflation. Coinage gives +15% Inflation. Inflation Offset was not set so it can be very draining on a developed nation that gets increased Inflation due to Civics, especially if you had a decently high inflation already.

Cheers

 

[Osk21]

I think the plumber's workshop building should include 1 or 2 health and not just cash. Indoor plumbing wouldn't be a bad idea for a technology either.

 

[Koshling]

I don't see any real necessity to enforce that restriction. I actually support any type of promotion being allowed to operate in this manner. The way I see it, if a unit was made before a free promotion was generated by a building that came later, the unit would be put through some extra training if they were brought to the location where that training is available. It wouldn't really cost more as the unit itself is still employed by the state (unit upkeep cost) and subject to spending its non-battle time being instructed to do SOMETHING anyhow. The fact that it happens in the span of one turn is my only reservation but when I think about how long one turn usually is, my reservations diminish there.

Plus, if we allow that to take place, it will eliminate my usual in-game need to destroy most of my early army so I can build one that gets the benefits of later buildings.

I've been doing some thinking on the equipment promotions and I'm not entirely sure its necessary to include any additional expenses there either. Most of the buildings that would be imparting equipments aren't currently adding or subtracting gold anyhow, and there is some rationale for that along the same lines. The issue is a double edged sword really. When a building such as a forge or armorer has been empowered to add a new equipment type, yes, it would cost the state to upgrade their units, but also too the state would be able to gain a healthy amount of taxation from private sales of that new equipment as well. I believe we can thus assume it naturally balances out.

Will you be making AI updates to ensure units actually move to cities to get these equipment (and other if added) promotions?

 

[AIAndy]

I don't see any real necessity to enforce that restriction. I actually support any type of promotion being allowed to operate in this manner. The way I see it, if a unit was made before a free promotion was generated by a building that came later, the unit would be put through some extra training if they were brought to the location where that training is available. It wouldn't really cost more as the unit itself is still employed by the state (unit upkeep cost) and subject to spending its non-battle time being instructed to do SOMETHING anyhow. The fact that it happens in the span of one turn is my only reservation but when I think about how long one turn usually is, my reservations diminish there.

Plus, if we allow that to take place, it will eliminate my usual in-game need to destroy most of my early army so I can build one that gets the benefits of later buildings.

I've been doing some thinking on the equipment promotions and I'm not entirely sure its necessary to include any additional expenses there either. Most of the buildings that would be imparting equipments aren't currently adding or subtracting gold anyhow, and there is some rationale for that along the same lines. The issue is a double edged sword really. When a building such as a forge or armorer has been empowered to add a new equipment type, yes, it would cost the state to upgrade their units, but also too the state would be able to gain a healthy amount of taxation from private sales of that new equipment as well. I believe we can thus assume it naturally balances out.

I am not sure if it is worth it but you could let the buildings produce some equipment properties per turn that are then used to buy the equipment (either by using an outcome mission which can already apply a promotion and can cost properties or by extra code).

 

[Cyrusfan]

Will you be making AI updates to ensure units actually move to cities to get these equipment (and other if added) promotions?

Would it be possible to apply promotions to units that pass through the city's vicinity rather than it's tile? That might be easier for the AI to stumble through...I mean understand.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Will you be making AI updates to ensure units actually move to cities to get these equipment (and other if added) promotions?

THAT was one of the things I wanted to talk to you about. Its going to be necessary to do something with that but where and when and how is something I thought I'd confer with you on to see what you would do there.

I was thinking that on occasion, the ai should be prompted to pull inactive units into cities, perhaps after a tech is discovered that could provide a new equipment (though there will be quite a few... perhaps it can be narrowed to a selection of techs).

And any time it sends a stack to war, the stack should be forced to step back into the city before moving forth. I'm still trying to sort out how it forms stacks and controls them differently than individual units so I was going to ask for some guidance there.

I am not sure if it is worth it but you could let the buildings produce some equipment properties per turn that are then used to buy the equipment (either by using an outcome mission which can already apply a promotion and can cost properties or by extra code).

I'd prefer to start the system without this added complexity and see if anyone feels it becomes necessary. An interesting idea though.

Would it be possible to apply promotions to units that pass through the city's vicinity rather than it's tile? That might be easier for the AI to stumble through...I mean understand.

I'm not sure how that could be done exactly since I'm really bad with working with plots and such in the coding. I can see how it would be great for the ai but seem a little gimpy for the player as well.

 

[TPEHEP]

Possible evolution of man, perhaps it will be interesting (need) to later eras

http://www.sivatherium.narod.ru/library/Dixon_3/01_en.htm

 

[Hydromancerx]

Possible evolution of man, perhaps it will be interesting (need) to later eras

http://www.sivatherium.narod.ru/library/Dixon_3/01_en.htm

I have those books (After Man, Man After Man and The New Dinosaurs). I love Dougal Dixon's stuff. Also the "Future is Wild" stuff was cool too.

 

[strategyonly]

Changes to v 24 out, thx to DH:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=11690815&postcount=185

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Apparently I am adding far too much to c2c (see here)so what do you think about this? Does it look like it may be interesting to add? It will add to the work done when new civs or leaders are added.

 

[Thunderbrd]

I do like that dynamic city naming but it does sound like a LOT of work to get installed right. Not that I'm against that sort of thing.

Oh... and to those who say you and Hydro are putting too much content in... I would like to offer them an expletive but for the sake of courtesy I won't. Keep it up guys! Just keep trying to balance it all too and we'll get to a point of perfection eventually. We've come a loooooong ways and I think we still have a ways to go but we're getting there... oh yes.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I do like that dynamic city naming but it does sound like a LOT of work to get installed right. Not that I'm against that sort of thing.

Looking at it a bit more, there would be a lot to do. However it looks like it is amenable to a slow staged introduction. I'll put it on my "may be interesting list".

Oh... and to those who say you and Hydro are putting too much content in... I would like to offer them an expletive but for the sake of courtesy I won't. Keep it up guys! Just keep trying to balance it all too and we'll get to a point of perfection eventually. We've come a loooooong ways and I think we still have a ways to go but we're getting there... oh yes.

There is no mention of Hydro, just me and StrategyOnly.

 

[Hydromancerx]

There is no mention of Hydro, just me and StrategyOnly.

Yeah you guys get blamed for stuff I put in (ex. Mushrooms Gatherers). Sorry about that.

 

[dusckr87]

Apparently I am adding far too much to c2c (see here)

Surely this isn't the first time you've seen such comments. They're said pretty often in the other mods' forums, and I've even seen it mentioned here. I agree to a very small extant, but I am a bit surprised if you haven't seen them before.

 

[draz]

There's absolutely no way to please everyone, I for one love all the detail you've put into various buildings.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Surely this isn't the first time you've seen such comments. They're said pretty often in the other mods' forums, and I've even seen it mentioned here. I agree to a very small extant, but I am a bit surprised if you haven't seen them before.

No not seen them, but as Oscar Wilde says "The only thing worse than being talked about, is not being talked about."

 

[RidetheSpiral23]

Apparently I am adding far too much to c2c (see here)so what do you think about this? Does it look like it may be interesting to add? It will add to the work done when new civs or leaders are added.

Throwing my two cents in if anyone cares

I would be on board for that. I don't mind getting new stuff all the time. Would it be possible to use that mod to rename particular cities by era? For instance, Roma to Rome.

 

[ls612]

I love how much stuff we add every release, but we really need to make our releases more stable, the past few have had way too many bugs and oversights. We should really release when we are ready and things are stable, as opposed to setting an arbitrary date on which we must release, bugs or no bugs.

 

[Terxpahseyton]

I am currently playing my first C2C game ever and above all I am psyched about this mod. Pre-Historical era was a lot of fun and I am looking forward to discovering the massive content and diversity of the other areas (am currently in the middle of the Ancient era). Above all I wish to pay my tribute to all the people who worked for this and still work on it.
I too "love all the detail" realized through the massive amounts of buildings. It gives a neat feeling of greater historical resemblance, variety and satisfying micro-management. However, I too also must join the criticism of it. Because the bonuses which can be collected by all those buildings seem very much out of balance. In my current and first game I have finally switched to deity (which I have never done before) because the AI seemed too noncompetitive. Yet, even though playing on deity, I am able to maintain a huge bloated army and run research 100% with as little as 7 cities. Due to all the building bonuses. And I must also agree that in time the overwhelming amount of building and their repetitive traits can make one go from "Oh look at this interesting building, that ought to help" to a bland collection of generic financial or productional bonuses.

 

[RidetheSpiral23]

I too love the diversity of buildings but sometimes I find myself building buildings that I don't even look at just because I want them out of the way. I know I can sort the buildings and I do it just gets kinda blah after a while. I too think that there is too much happiness, health and gold. It's just too easy for a mod designed for the more hardcore gamer. I don't know, just putting my thoughts out there. Maybe it would be a good idea to comb through each era and see how balanced those aspects are and maybe try to make buildings more unique.