Caveman 2 Cosmos (ideas/discussions thread)

[Actuarian]

I noticed a small omission. There is no text for the poison makers hut saying what units the poison weapon promotion applies to. The promotion didn't apply to my hunter or the stone axeman when I built them - it seems like it should at least apply to the hunter.

I also have an observation. There are tons of things to build with subdued animals, which is cool. However, well before I have the technology to build many of the later ones there are no more animals being generated, only barbarians. I didn't try to save the subdued animals to build something later; I just used them to make the best buildings that I could at the time. Now I have no animals, no 'igloo buildings' except for the elephant one, and no 'carnival' buildings.

Did you intend for us to ration the subdued animals? If not maybe you could continue to generate animals for a longer period of time, maybe have a period where both animals and barbarians are generated?

I don't know if makes a difference, but I was playing the slowest game on the largest mapsize at warlord level with raging barbarians. I did get one settler from a goodie hut, but I also founded a couple of other cities before the animals petered out.

 

[CiverDan]

That usually means your running low on memory and need to save your game, stop.

Restart your PC and re-start from that saved game area. No biggy. (or i might have messed something up)

Well, the picture showed up fine when I entered the Transhuman era. Wouldn't expect to see memory issues like that on the 4 GB RAM system I have now which loads the mod in 30 seconds or so. Could do a game on a small map (Was using a Gigantic map for this game) and see if it shows them.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I noticed a small omission. There is no text for the poison makers hut saying what units the poison weapon promotion applies to. The promotion didn't apply to my hunter or the stone axeman when I built them - it seems like it should at least apply to the hunter.

I also have an observation. There are tons of things to build with subdued animals, which is cool. However, well before I have the technology to build many of the later ones there are no more animals being generated, only barbarians. I didn't try to save the subdued animals to build something later; I just used them to make the best buildings that I could at the time. Now I have no animals, no 'igloo buildings' except for the elephant one, and no 'carnival' buildings.

Did you intend for us to ration the subdued animals? If not maybe you could continue to generate animals for a longer period of time, maybe have a period where both animals and barbarians are generated?

I don't know if makes a difference, but I was playing the slowest game on the largest mapsize at warlord level with raging barbarians. I did get one settler from a goodie hut, but I also founded a couple of other cities before the animals petered out.

The building side of SubdueAnimals does not work well with the Prehistoric Era. There are too many techs and you can't get the ones which have the buildings before BtS stops making barbarian animals which happens at a set turn number. Which is as far as I can tell is out of the control of modders.

So if you want SubdueAnimals to work properly, you need to start the game in the Ancient Era which is a pain or ration your animals until later which is also a pain and can ruin your economy.

 

[Thunderbrd]

There are too many techs and you can't get the ones which have the buildings before BtS stops making barbarian animals which happens at a set turn number. Which is as far as I can tell is out of the control of modders.

This is one of a couple of things I've done with the .dll file I'm including here.

Introducing:

Divine Prophets mod
only for Caveman2Cosmos

The purpose of this mod was initially just to fix the bugs with the religious delivery mechanism where the Select Religions game option was on. Not only have I managed to correct this error, but I've introduced a new game option entirely.

Divine Prophets: Allows religions to be founded not by tech but rather by prophet. With this option on, rather than gaining a free religion when a religious tech is achieved, you get a free prophet. Prophets can then found religions (limited to the religions accessed so far by the technologies achieved unless 'Choose Religions' is also on, in which case, the prophet can found any religion.) by spreading a religion that has yet been spread. Careful... religions that have been founded may still be spread by a prophet as he can now spread ANY religion.


Release Notes:
It will no longer be enough to remove just a religion folder from the modules, the ability to spread that religion must also be removed from the prophet in the UnitInfo.XML.

If we've made adjustments to the techs, it will become necessary to not simply import the new TechInfo.XML file, but rather, add the line:
<FirstFreeProphet>UNITCLASS_PROPHET</FirstFreeProphet>
Just after:
<FirstFreeUnitClass>whatever_went_here</FirstFreeUnitClass>
to any techs that normally result in a new religion being founded for the first to reach that religion.

MAKE SURE to include the new GameInfosSchema file! It is not REQUIRED to have the <FirstFreeProphet> line in any given tech entry.


Anyhow, I think that covers everything... if there's any issues or questions, please ask. It would be really cool to add this into the core for the next version release.

 

[Actuarian]

The building side of SubdueAnimals does not work well with the Prehistoric Era. There are too many techs and you can't get the ones which have the buildings before BtS stops making barbarian animals which happens at a set turn number. Which is as far as I can tell is out of the control of modders.

So if you want SubdueAnimals to work properly, you need to start the game in the Ancient Era which is a pain or ration your animals until later which is also a pain and can ruin your economy.

Darn! I wonder how they do it in the FFH mod-mods. Maybe you could have animal lairs spawn like in Wildmana and RifE. Maybe those mod creators could give you advice - if you're interested.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Darn! I wonder how they do it in the FFH mod-mods. Maybe you could have animal lairs spawn like in Wildmana and RifE. Maybe those mod creators could give you advice - if you're interested.

The game stops spawning animals for one of two reasons.

One is in the XML files. In our XML files here we have attempted to get animals to continue to spawn into the Ancient era (I suggest we go even further actually).

The other cause lies inside the .dll. There's programming in the source codes that states that if barbarians are spawning, kill any animals that spawn as soon as they have spawned. My .dll removes this condition, allowing animals to continue to spawn based on what we've done in the XML. So, now, barbs AND animals can spawn at the same time.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@Thunderbrd

Your DP mod looks cool. I am just wondering if it conflicts with the latest alpha versions that strategyonly, Dancing Hoskuld and I have been passing on to each other.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

This is one of a couple of things I've done with the .dll file I'm including here.

Introducing:

Divine Prophets mod
only for Caveman2Cosmos

The purpose of this mod was initially just to fix the bugs with the religious delivery mechanism where the Select Religions game option was on. Not only have I managed to correct this error, but I've introduced a new game option entirely.

Divine Prophets: Allows religions to be founded not by tech but rather by prophet. With this option on, rather than gaining a free religion when a religious tech is achieved, you get a free prophet. Prophets can then found religions (limited to the religions accessed so far by the technologies achieved unless 'Choose Religions' is also on, in which case, the prophet can found any religion.) by spreading a religion that has yet been spread. Careful... religions that have been founded may still be spread by a prophet as he can now spread ANY religion.


Release Notes:
It will no longer be enough to remove just a religion folder from the modules, the ability to spread that religion must also be removed from the prophet in the UnitInfo.XML.

If we've made adjustments to the techs, it will become necessary to not simply import the new TechInfo.XML file, but rather, add the line:
<FirstFreeProphet>UNITCLASS_PROPHET</FirstFreeProphet>
Just after:
<FirstFreeUnitClass>whatever_went_here</FirstFreeUnitClass>
to any techs that normally result in a new religion being founded for the first to reach that religion.

MAKE SURE to include the new GameInfosSchema file! It is not REQUIRED to have the <FirstFreeProphet> line in any given tech entry.


Anyhow, I think that covers everything... if there's any issues or questions, please ask. It would be really cool to add this into the core for the next version release.

There is already a mechanism in teh XML to get a free GP if you are the first to get a tech. Does this change it so everyone gets a GP when they get the tech?

If the XML is modular like it is now then you only need to put the GP info for the religion in the religion folder like we do for shrines so we are back to being able to remove a folder to remove a religion.

downloading now.

 

[Thunderbrd]

There is already a mechanism in teh XML to get a free GP if you are the first to get a tech. Does this change it so everyone gets a GP when they get the tech?

no... but it does eliminate the need for worrying about whether a GP is already IN that slot and it works a bit differently for whether the option is on or off. In other words, with music, you get BOTH the prophet and the artist... the current setting only allows for one or the other. And when the divine prophets option is off you don't get the prophet but you still get the artist.

If the XML is modular like it is now then you only need to put the GP info for the religion in the religion folder like we do for shrines so we are back to being able to remove a folder to remove a religion.

I've pulled off a miracle here for a first time modder but there are still some gaps in my understanding, particularly where modularization is concerned. I wasn't sure if you could simply add another unitinfo into the religion folder that covers the prophet and adds in the spread religion capability or if it all needed to be under the one prophet entry. Perhaps you guys can figure out how to improve on that... just let me know what you've done so I can right my thinking there.

Your DP mod looks cool. I am just wondering if it conflicts with the latest alpha versions that strategyonly, Dancing Hoskuld and I have been passing on to each other.

Just watch how the files interact and keep the release notes in mind and it should harmonize nicely. If I can get an updated alpha I can update the pertinent files as well but I've gotten a bit lost in all the updates so this is primarily built on just the latest release.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Just watch how the files interact and keep the release notes in mind and it should harmonize nicely. If I can get an updated alpha I can update the pertinent files as well but I've gotten a bit lost in all the updates so this is primarily built on just the latest release.

That's why I am thinking maybe strategyonly should release the current version soon and then you can base it off that. Then once combine that version with yours added can be the new alpha. I mean there is so much new stuff I am not even sure if I have everything that is going to be included in the next update.

 

[strategyonly]

That's why I am thinking maybe strategyonly should release the current version soon and then you can base it off that. Then once combine that version with yours added can be the new alpha. I mean there is so much new stuff I am not even sure if I have everything that is going to be included in the next update.

I just wrote that PM to DH about SA thats why he responded to that PM both of us have. I just wrote back and said i put the Hunter to Tech_Paths also the Dog Kennel. Plus alittle more info for thought also. Since i have more time than DH because of his RL, if you want me to do something, just ask, i have NO RL

As soon as "we" get this solved i can put out an UPDATE.

@Thunderbrd: If you want to be included in the updates, do what i do, "Just Ask." As long as you are actually contributing to the mod, its no problem, at least for me, what say you guys? Its up to them also. (Just PM me, as not to take up thread space, thx).

@DH, your canoe/war c., works great, even the barbarians are using it the way they are suppose to, thx. I changed the fscale alittle to 0.20.

 

[Hydromancerx]

I just wrote that PM to DH about SA thats why he responded to that PM both of us have. I just wrote back and said i put the Hunter to Tech_Paths also the Dog Kennel. Plus alittle more info for thought also. Since i have more time than DH because of his RL, if you want me to do something, just ask, i have NO RL

As soon as "we" get this solved i can put out an UPDATE.

No problem. I completely understand. And Yay and update!

@Thunderbrd: If you want to be included in the updates, do what i do, "Just Ask." As long as you are actually contributing to the mod, its no problem, at least for me, what say you guys? Its up to them also. (Just PM me, as not to take up thread space, thx).

I am totally for collaboration and the best ideas come from such actions. Like I said about the idea sounds cool. I think it had been brought up before, but no one eve made a mod for it. Having it already made is even better!

@DH, your canoe/war c., works great, even the barbarians are using it the way they are suppose to, thx. I changed the fscale alittle to 0.20.

Ah that's what i forgot to install. I guess I will just wait for the main update.

----

Now that I did my last update I should go back into brainstorming mode. I have a lot I want to get to. So far my whole "fake" resources have turned out well. I am not sure If i should do some more or move on to another subject like civics or minor civs.

 

[strategyonly]

No problem. I completely understand. And Yay and update!



I am totally for collaboration and the best ideas come from such actions. Like I said about the idea sounds cool. I think it had been brought up before, but no one eve made a mod for it. Having it already made is even better!



Ah that's what i forgot to install. I guess I will just wait for the main update.

----

Now that I did my last update I should go back into brainstorming mode. I have a lot I want to get to. So far my whole "fake" resources have turned out well. I am not sure If i should do some more or move on to another subject like civics or minor civs.

I think you need to get what ever is on your brain on buildings out, that way you are still thinking in the right mode (but not much), then change over to civics alittle later.


btw, i added in a Thief, Rogue, Ambusher, and Assassin, SO FAR.

 

[Hydromancerx]

I think you need to get what ever is on your brain on buildings out, that way you are still thinking in the right mode (but not much), then change over to civics alittle later.

Yea your probably right. I still have some "fake" crops to make plus all the mineral related ones to do.

btw, i added in a Thief, Rogue, Ambusher, and Assassin, SO FAR.

So what upgrade path are you having? Also what kind of stats and techs are they linked to?

EDIT: Ok here is the current "fake" crops progress. Let me know if there is a crop that I am missing on my chart and if you have an idea where it should go on the chart. Note that green means its finished.

 

[strategyonly]

@NotSoGood:

OK i finally got around to very little testing of your NEW Animal Placement, but i got this?

 

[Thunderbrd]

@StrategyOnly:

 

[strategyonly]

@StrategyOnly:

Thx, i didnt know you put this here, till after i read the PM.

The reason i sent them to you was for you to re-do them the way you wanted them to be.

EDIT: Pls remove that attachment above thx.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

@StrategyOnly does post #751 mean you have the Great People mod working now. It has not worked on my version for quite some time.

I too can't get the latest AnimalPlacement working, and yes I made sure I had not commented it out for the test.

and Hydromancerix there are a few tech still which don't have anything on them "Cloud patterns" and "Orachards" are two. The latter looks like it does have buildings but none that you can build in that era.

A thought on stopping the AI wasting time on some of the dead end techs and paths - put a small and slightly useful building in which those techs need. For example have a Mahout School (on Mega fauna tech?)which requires Ivory (even from trade) and the Palace (or something) cost very small and gives just +1 beaker. Then have Elephant training require that building.

@Thunderbird To make the religion spread modular like the rest of the XML what needs to be done is change the prophet part of UnitInfosXML in for each religion in Modules/DancingHoskuld/Custom_Religions from (for Andean)

		<UnitInfo>
			<Type>UNIT_PROPHET</Type>
			<Buildings>
				<Building>
					<BuildingType>BUILDING_ANDEAN_SHRINE</BuildingType>
					<bBuilding>1</bBuilding>
				</Building>
			</Buildings>
		</UnitInfo>
	</UnitInfos>

to

		<UnitInfo>
			<Type>UNIT_PROPHET</Type>
			<ReligionSpreads>
				<ReligionSpread>
					<ReligionType>RELIGION_ANDEAN</ReligionType>
					<iReligionSpread>100</iReligionSpread>
				</ReligionSpread>
			</ReligionSpreads>
			<Buildings>
				<Building>
					<BuildingType>BUILDING_ANDEAN_SHRINE</BuildingType>
					<bBuilding>1</bBuilding>
				</Building>
			</Buildings>
		</UnitInfo>
	</UnitInfos>

There is a new version of RevDCM out so I should go and convert RoM. I know of a fix for the problem with the extra civics but it looks like it needs a later version of BUG that C2C uses so after I get RoM working I will look into merging it into C2C if it is even possible.

@Dancing Hoskuld
I think perhaps this should get a total overhaul. Note these are all just suggestions. I don't want to mess with your baby if you don't want me too. For the most part I have tried to keep from interacting with any of your buildings but here are some ideas I had if you would like them ...

* = I Need to Make

These first would be for the "Hunting Camp".

Unit = Building
Deer = Deer Hunter's Camp
Bison = Bison Hunter's Camp
Elephant = Elephant Hunter's Camp
Boar = Boar Hunter's Camp*

These next would be for the domesticated animals.

Unit = Building
Elephant = Elephant Trainer
Wolf = Dog Breeder
Horse = Horse Farm
Boar = Pig Farm
Bison = Cow Farm
Gorilla = Monkey Breeder
Orangutan = Monkey Breeder
Mammoth = Mammoth Trainer [Wonder]
Camel = Camel Farm

These next ones would be for the "Arena".

Unit = Building
Lion (Lion or Pack of Lions or Cave Lion) = Lion Holding Pen
Tiger (Siberian or Bengal) = Tiger Holding Pen
Jaguar = Jaguar Holding Pen
Leopard (Panther or Leopard) = Leopard Holding Pen
Cheetah = Cheetah Holding Pen
Hyena = Holding Pen
Bear (Polar or Cave, etc) = Bear Holding Pen
Giraffe = Giraffe Holding Pen
Rhino = Rhino Holding Pen
Elephant = Elephant Holding Pen

You get the idea. Just some ideas, nothing solid yet. Just wanted to get your input.

Interesting ideas, its a pity they are all far too late for SubdueAnimals in C2C. We need buildings that can be built before the Hunting tech which can be researched only at the end of the period with animals being spawned. Any latter buildings require you to be very familiar with C2C and hold onto animals for that specific use. This was one of the reasons I reduced the number of cage buildings in RoM - they are just there to use up any subdue animals you have left over.

For some reason the python I posted is not working right for the new camel and giraffe units - I will need to check it again.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Ah.. ok, so it IS that intuitive... not a problem. I'll update right away.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Ah.. ok, so it IS that intuitive... not a problem. I'll update right away.

I have not tested your version yet, still tecting updates . Have you hard coded the techs where the prophets are given? Or do you use the preqtech on the religion to decide when to give a GP? I hope you chose the latter because it makes it easy to add, remove or change religions.