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Caveman 2 Cosmos (ideas/discussions thread)

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Caveman 2 Cosmos' started by strategyonly, Sep 3, 2010.

  1. Dancing Hoskuld

    Dancing Hoskuld Deity

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    If you mean that they remove all anarchy in a newly conquered city, then no. Each Story Teller reduces the anarchy by 1 turn and give some of your culture to the conquered city. Entertainers and Celebrities are more powerful. All have a small chance of surviving the experience and being sent home. Yes, you can use lots in one go and you should send some with your troops. Yes they can be used in your own cities for extending culture. However they have been around for a long time and are basically balanced. We just don't know why they don't work. Probably next on my to do list.
     
  2. DRJ

    DRJ Hedonist

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    Am I the only one experiencing that building like 30 forts but not paying maintenance for them other than the worker turns going in is unbalanced? Cause AI doesn't do it as excessively -- so I think humans doing it should be "taxed" for it...

    This is the forth time I bring up the topic, replies = ZERO

    There was an event once, asking you to pay a lump sum or the fort would be destoyed - it doesn't come up anymore, too.

    I am playing GEM and I think by blocking AI from parts of the world + claiming huge chunks of territory with lines of forts I am exploiting forts, so please do something against it. I really wonder why there are not more complaints...
     
  3. gay_Aleks

    gay_Aleks communism will win.

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    Actually, do forts have any actual maintenance? Can you even put maintenance on an improvement?

    Also, so can you remove all anarchy? For an example, you take a capital, 10 turns of anarchy, you bring 10 storytellers/entertainers/celebrities, can this remove all anarchy (or reduce it to 1 turn?)
     
  4. Dancing Hoskuld

    Dancing Hoskuld Deity

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    I have been getting this once or twice per game recently.

    The AI is building fewer forts than it used to and I am certain they don't know how to use multiple of them with zoc to make choke points and effective barriers.
     
  5. DRJ

    DRJ Hedonist

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    Good to know it still works but honestly 2 times 100 gold per game = maintenance for 100 forts throughout the whole game. Regarding balance this is a joke, I think.

    Really, maintenance of improvements is the thing that would have to be to discussed.
    While, like roads, they can cost when being built I don't know if they can cost per turn.

    In civ5 a road costs like 1 :gold: per turn - in C2C it costs 2 for building ONCE in the game. The infrastructure is not realistic. Or take plantations for example: the people working on that plantation must have food, tools, and clothes etc. While their shelter would be managed by the initial workers who built it, the shelter needs to be maintained and as no workers are around this also would add to maintenance.

    So I could imagine a plantation could bring like 2 :food: 7 :commerce: but cost +1 :gold: per turn or something. A fort would cost like 10 :gold: and if possible more later in the game (100 late renaissance, 1000 modern) Is it possible to tie maintenance for objects to era? F.e. may a musketman cost 2 :gold: /turn during his initial era and later automatically cost 20 :gold: ?

    tl;dr

    if we could have maintenance for improvements and also maintenance adjusted to eras, there would be many possibilities regarding balancing, especially for human exploits
     
  6. LordViriato

    LordViriato Chieftain

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    Idea or question:

    Are there any way to show a border obstacle (like The Great wall of china), but only for city area?. Because I think that it can be a graphical way to simulate a province/internal state...

    Sorry for my bad english and thank you in advance!!! :) :groucho: :)
     
  7. Koshling

    Koshling Vorlon

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    No, sorry, there isn't. The graphics engine is outside our control, so we can only display certain categories of things that it was written for (units, terrain, etc.). The Great Wall is a special case which is hard-coded inside the game engine, inaccessible to us (all we can do is tell it to turn it on or off basically).
     
  8. Dancing Hoskuld

    Dancing Hoskuld Deity

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    The latest version of Super Forts comes with better AI for choke points and canal (ie one or two forts) building. It is an SDK mod so I doubt I will ever merge it.

    BtW I am seriously considering taking time out and upgrading the BUG part of C2C to the latest BUG version. This is a non trivial task as the code is full of RoM, ROM:AND and C2C changes which may or may not have been done better in BUG or should be modules.
     
  9. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    I've often thought along those lines - that there should be a support cost for improvements indeed. Perhaps someone may wish to work on such a project but my plate is beyond full as it is.
     
  10. Yudishtira

    Yudishtira Spiritual/Creative

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    I agree with you that there needs to be some further disincentive to forts outside of your BFCs. However, the reason you are the only one complaining repeatedly might be that you are the only one spamming them to such exploitative proportions. The (100% effective if short-term) solution is: stop doing it.:mischief:

    As for maintenance of improvements in general, it's a good enough idea, but it doesn't address a current problem with the mod (unlike forts they can not be exploitatively spammed outside borders), nor is it in line with some planned enhancement to the mod. And what you describe as "many possibilities regarding balancing" is in fact a whole new balancing headache which we don't need.
     
  11. DRJ

    DRJ Hedonist

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    Well, what about a short term solution as long as we don't have a final and well balanced one?

    I usually play deity level and when the game reaches a breaking point because I see I can exploit something quite easily I'm over and done with that game and only continue or start new once there has been done something...

    So what could it be here?

    a) the "fort lump sum event" will have a higher % of coming into action - what would I have to do for that, would someone maybe commit it to SVN.

    b) [in addition to a)] an intermediate, flexible worker-turn increase. First fort needs like 50 turns worker action next one needs 100, etc. Is this possible?

    Or maybe

    c) tie the extra worker turns on improvement on distance from capital, if possible?
    Effect: because the to be constructed improvement is half around the world the materials for it need longer to get there...

    Just don't do it is not the tip/fix I want to be left with when playing deity. It's just not right. There must be a short term solution.


    And thx @DancingHoskuld for contemplating to merge the super forts + better AI for chokepoints part into C2C it surely would be a huge step towards more fun for the old veterans :goodjob:

    In fact what we don't need is balancing that is not working realisticly and has a lot of flaws. It may be a headache to you but to me it sounds like progress.

    I agree there are a lot of other parts that needs to be improved as well but think of it this way: By adding the suggested incentetives towards maintenance you can steer AI behaviour efficiently. So what we get is not only better balance for the human towards the AI (because we get rid of exploits) but also a better AI regarding its handling of economic and thus core expansion matters...
     
  12. Nimek

    Nimek Emperor

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    @DH

    Super forts mod have also some interesting new tags like actAsCity that could be implemented to caves like someone sugested.

    Also i think that we need something earlier than fort improvement

    FOr example why i can build palisade inside the city but cant do it outside?
    I think we should add palissade improvement
     
  13. stachnie

    stachnie Theorist

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    I have tried the Rock2Rockets modmod. It is interesting but it is based on some older version of C2C. One of its features is that it ends (IIRC) before Transhuman idea. Maybe it would be possible to put custom Ending Era to the Custom Game menu? One may choose Starting Era, so why not the Ending one? I guess it could spare a lot of RAM.

    S.
     
  14. strategyonly

    strategyonly C2C Supreme Commander

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    Interesting idea, DH, what say you??
     
  15. Dancing Hoskuld

    Dancing Hoskuld Deity

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    actascity is bts standard tag as far as i know and exists on forts.

    The main problem with forts as implemented in C2C is that a number of fort features are not accessible from the XML. The whole cultural thing is one. Zone of control is another. Which means we can't do much with them.
     
  16. LordViriato

    LordViriato Chieftain

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    Ok, thank you. So, if we talk into a visual aspect, I think it isn't possible simulate city frontiers like into "Call To Power 2". Is it Right?
     
  17. LordViriato

    LordViriato Chieftain

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    Another suggestion, a new civic option. This is "TERRITORY".

    This is my idea to select the territory's structure of your civilization.

    It can be:

    CITY-STATES:
    Example: clasical greek civilization.
    Revolution: More than 1 city -> strong instability and revolt almost certain
    <iCityLimit>1</iCityLimit>
    <iCityOverLimitUnhappy>3</iCityOverLimitUnhappy>
    <fRevIdxNationalityMod>500</fRevIdxNationalityMod>
    <fRevIdxBadReligionMod>500</fRevIdxBadReligionMod>
    A city state is an independent country whose territory consists of a city which is not administered as part of another local government. Each city, along with the immediate region, is a politically independent of the others, while recognizing common cultural ties among them.

    UNITARY:
    A unitary state is a sovereign state governed as one single unit in which the central government is supreme and any administrative divisions (subnational units) exercise only powers that the central government chooses to delegate. Many states in the world have a unitary system of government.

    REGIONAL:
    In political geography, a regional state is a state more centralized than a federation, but less centralized than an unitary state. Regional states include federations in which power has become more centralized, and unitary states in which some power has been devolved to regional governments. This term has yet to become widely used.

    FEDERATION.

    CONFEDERATION.

    EMPIRE:
    Example: Roman system political estructure.

    Ole!!!, Bye.
     
  18. strategyonly

    strategyonly C2C Supreme Commander

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    Try putting that is this thread, thx.

    http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=436363
     
  19. Koshling

    Koshling Vorlon

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    Right. Basically we're limited to changing the shading of the tiles (like cultural ownership), or displaying graphics which are purely single tile (like improvements) - although we could put such graphics in a line along a boundary, we couldn't make them join up into one structure, and we also would have trouble displaying them in tiles that already had improvements with their own graphics.
     
  20. Lexotan_sedlex

    Lexotan_sedlex Warlord

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    People, what do you think about a new image to load screen? maube the same but with a better resolution.
     

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