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Caveman 2 Cosmos (ideas/discussions thread)

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Caveman 2 Cosmos' started by strategyonly, Sep 3, 2010.

  1. Snofru1

    Snofru1 Chieftain

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    In my game on the Vertical Solar Map Techs go by way too fast after the recent changes, it was OK before! I play Snail and Monarch and have 15 well established cities at the end of the Ancient Era. There is space for much more than 100 cities on the Earth part of the map. Researching a tech takes only 1-2 turns, e.g. building a monastery alone takes about 3 turns, a hero takes 5 turns in my most productive city. If you reduce the tech times you should also reduce the time for constructing buildings and units. Or, as I already have asked for a long time ago, please give us an option to increase research times by a factor of 2 and keep everything else the same.
     
  2. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    Please be specific about this "underlying global". Where and what?
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2018
  3. Snofru1

    Snofru1 Chieftain

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    I´d say that it is now roughly the same than a year ago (comparing my current map to the smaller one I used then), maybe it was slightly better then.

    Edit: Joseph has changed his last post, I was asked to compare the described effects to what it was about one year ago.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2018
  4. Whisperr

    Whisperr Chieftain

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    I am running numbers right now with changes to the global. The changes made the techs too low and would ruin my game to continue to play them.

    I have numbers on some techs at 100 global tech and 100 map size (the changes), 150 global and 100 map and 100 global and 130 map (original setting)
     
  5. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    Yes I did change it. I must be careful.
     
    Osk21 likes this.
  6. Toffer90

    Toffer90 C2C Modder

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    TECH_COST_MODIFIER in global defines.
     
  7. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    @JosEPh_II When I can't look at the code directly I never remember what it actually is. I just know it's named to be obvious and it's in the global defines, probably the globaldefines.xml file. Sorry I'm not so good with bringing the name of it specifically to mind so just refer to it in general terminology. I don't mean to be a pain.
     
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  8. Dancing Hoskuld

    Dancing Hoskuld Warlord

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    See Hunter Review when I get it together.
    Tried this and still have the modmod somewhere. A unit can only move so far from their cultural borders.

    1. Mostly it only causes minor problems except when it causes the old infinite loop. The same one that is seen with stack limits. The way it works is to test if the unit can move to where it is going but it can't so it tries another place but it can't move there so and so on until it gets back to the first place it tried to move to and it still can't but it does not know it has tried all options.

    2. AI needs to learn to build "supply stations" ie some sort of fortification to extend their range.​
     
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  9. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    @T-brd,
    Understood. I'm that way too.

    On another note: I have reverted these changes for My Personal and Testing games. But not for the Mod.

    @Team,
    I will Not be doing anything to the Mod thru a commit with this situation. 3 times now I've had the legs knocked off the balance table. The 2nd time caused a conflagration. And it's still not fixed. May never be fixed in fact.

    I'm tired of countless hours put into testing Before I make a commit only to have it walked all over, of other modders running rough shod over my balancing work in the mod because "they know better". I'm tired of being accused of things I did not do and being labeled for it. All because I said it was wrong and not working right. Bitter arrogant old man that I am. So, since you all know better and are way more intelligent than me you can do it now. That should make some of the Team very happy.

    I bought Stellaris months ago and only have a few hours into it. I think it's time to play another game for awhile. To clear the head and heart.......
     
  10. alberts2

    alberts2 Chieftain

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    I haven't played it yet but it seems interesting. I'am playing XCOM2 and CIV6 at the moment.
     
  11. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    So what's triggering this feeling now?
     
  12. raxo2222

    raxo2222 Time Traveller

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    My bet is on removal of tech cost modifier from map size.
    That thing definitely upsets current balance.
    Gigantic now has ~2x cheaper techs and Duel has ~2x more expensive techs now.
    Actual effect depends on Handicap tech cost modifier for now.
    Same with Beeline stings.
     
  13. Shoobs

    Shoobs Chieftain

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    For reference to how quick tech is going, usually I wouldn't leave Prehistory until atleast year 6k bc, but right now I left it at 16520. Way too soon.

    @JosEPh_II
    Stellaris is a great game. You should enjoy it.
     
  14. Snofru1

    Snofru1 Chieftain

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    I have returned to a SVN version before the removal of Tech Cost Modifier and research is back to normal again. (I would still prefer to research even slower compared to construction though, so I still would love to see an option of reduced research speed).
     
  15. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    Oh we cant leave the research costs as is... of course not. We have a proposed setting and apparently a consensus on it here so this afternoon I will adjust it. We can consider yet more but I am irritated by the math flaw so want to get in and upset this thing and recalibrate. Joe found a very good balance and my goal will be to strive to get it back to as close as I can to where we are at with his work then we can start dialing in more specific values where needed.

    I do understand Joe... it is frustrating.
     
  16. Toffer90

    Toffer90 C2C Modder

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    There was a consensus that map size should not affect research cost as much as it did; I made the choice to reset it to zero instead of reducing the effect, because I felt it would be easier to adjust it a bit up again later, after some deeper analysts had been made. Another reason for my decision was to provoke discussion and focus on the whole research cost/speed topic from all sides. I also wanted TB to realize he needs to change the research cost formula to mimic the building cost formula sooner rather than later. Changing that formula will upset stuff too so it's easier to do it when stuff has already been upset. This is something that is important to get done as early in the development cycle as possible, because we will need a lot of time to get things re-adjusted.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2018
  17. raxo2222

    raxo2222 Time Traveller

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    So smaller maps - cities can grow larger
    Bigger maps - cities will be smaller on same turn.
    That is if all other conditions are unchanged
    Sizes are: Duel/Tiny/Small/Standard/Large/Huge/Giant/Gigantic.
    Equivalent food cost required to grow is adiusted to 70/80/90/100/110/120/130/140 percent.
    That is if city on Standard size reaches X population on 100th turn, then on Duel it will be 70th turn and Gigantic will be on 140th turn.
     
  18. amjh

    amjh Chieftain

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    Would it be possible to add an option that makes cities always use the expanded range for determining "nearby" resources? Currently, placing cities can be pretty painful because many vital resource tiles are useless if left outside the city areas.
     
  19. Dancing Hoskuld

    Dancing Hoskuld Warlord

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    We have been discussing "sub-cities" for this kind of thing. They are a cross between cities and fortifications but can build only buildings that relate to resources in the 9 plot square. They would not be able to build units or anything but those buildings related to the resources. This would provide :gold: and the manufactured bonuses. :food: and :hammers: would be lost though the :hammers: would be used for building the resource buildings.
     
  20. amjh

    amjh Chieftain

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    What about camps that give the nearest city the "nearby resource" bonus but must be within cultural borders, don't give other income from the tile, don't expand territory and take a gold upkeep?
     

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