Caveman 2 Cosmos (ideas/discussions thread)

[alberts8]

here's a save where you can pick the hillsman promotion for the clubman situated in the north of the map.

That explains your issue but it's not a bug.

1. A Clubman only has 1 move.
2. Moving onto a Hill costs 2 moves.
3. The Hillsman promotion divides that by 2 so it only costs 1 move.
4. When a Clubman with the Hillsman promotion moves onto a Hill it consumes the single move that unit has.

Using that promotion on a Unit with only 1 move makes no sense you should try to use that promotion with a unit which has 2 moves.

 

[Filochard]

So there were changes in movement costs because before it wasn't like that as i used to get this promotion (and forestry as well) early in game to have military units able to do exploration quicker.
Then I need to change the way I play and use the forced march buid up (with all the risks it came with)
thx for the explanation

 

[Toffer90]

Using that promotion on a Unit with only 1 move makes no sense you should try to use that promotion with a unit which has 2 moves.

Not entirely true.

If the hill has a route, then the clubman will only spend 0.5 MP (trail) to cross the hill with the double movement in hills promotion (less if the route is better than the first type of route.).​

Correct me if I'm wrong. Edit: Corrected

 

[alberts8]

So there were changes in movement costs because before it wasn't like that as i used to get this promotion (and forestry as well) early in game to have military units able to do exploration quicker.
Then I need to change the way I play and use the forced march buid up (with all the risks it came with)
thx for the explanation

I didn't change the double movement from terrain rules but maybe i accidentally fixed an bug that caused what you're saying in earlier versions?

The code for the DoubleMoves in the movement cost calculation actually is the same as it was in vanilla Beyond the Sword.

if (((getFeatureType() == NO_FEATURE) ? pUnit->isTerrainDoubleMove(getTerrainType()) : pUnit->isFeatureDoubleMove(getFeatureType())) ||
            (isHills() && pUnit->isHillsDoubleMove()))
        {
            iRegularCost /= 2;
        }

I don't know how to explain this?

Not entirely true.

If the hill has a route, then the clubman will only spend 0.5 MP (trail) to cross the hill with the double movement in hills promotion (less if the route is better than the first type of route.).​

Correct me if I'm wrong.

If there is a route on a plot the terrain and feature movement costs are ignored and so are those promotions. Only the moment costs of the route count in that case.

 

[BlueGenie]

Corrected Toffer. I think. If a hill has a trail or and you move along the trail but not crossing a river to do so then the movement is either 1 for following a trail as that just removes the usual penalties or (2/2=1) 1 for the hills walk promotion.
As far as I know the lowest of the available movement types is used, road type or unit terrain promotions, not a reduction of the road type by terrain modifier as well.

 

[alberts8]

Can anyone else confirm that units with only one move like the clubman used to get a second move somehow from those promotions?

If that's the case i must have somehow broken this.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Can anyone else confirm that units with only one move like the clubman used to get a second move somehow from those promotions?

If that's the case i must have somehow broken this.

Oh yeah. That was the whole point of those promos. Check out how its done in Vanilla.

EDIT: I think I've figured out the issue. A while back Toffer stated that we should try allowing the feature movement cost and the terrain movement cost to be additive (including hills and peaks) rather than the feature cost replacing that of the terrain as it was in Vanilla.

This may have elevated plot movement cost totals a bit.

The halving of the terrain costs on a forest or hill or forested hill would make for a plot that cost less than one. When a unit with half movement cost on hills or forests would move onto such a plot, even if both forested and hilled, the plot would end up costing less than one and would thus give the unit an additional space to move.

So NOW, if a unit has both forest and hill half move cost then it should be able to move two spaces if the first is either a forest or a hill or even both. But if a unit only has one of those abilities and moves onto a forested hill, it would stop at the one plot moved.

Might take a touch of confirmation of this suspected outcome but I think that's where we are at, unless we've established a min cost of a full 1 movement points for each plot moved, in which case we've broken the Vanilla based intent of half cost terrain promo effects.

 

[alberts8]

Oh yeah. That was the whole point of those promos. Check out how its done in Vanilla.

But where is the code for this located because as i wrote before that part of the movement cost calculations is the same as it was in vanilla????

Or is this just another case of confusion like it was about vanilla having a river movement penalty?

 

[Thunderbrd]

But where is the code for this located because as i wrote before that part of the movement cost calculations is the same as it was in vanilla????

Or is this just another case of confusion like it was about vanilla having a river movement penalty?

That could also be a cause. See my above edit though.

 

[alberts8]

But even those changes couldn't explain this in case of a unit which only has one move. There is no code to add a move to a unit in case a unit has only one move and I highly doubt vanilla had such code.

So it must be some kind of confusion.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Can anyone else confirm that units with only one move like the clubman used to get a second move somehow from those promotions?

If that's the case i must have somehow broken this.

No they didn't. Unless they were starting on a hill and moving into a hill, then under some circumstances they would get that second move.

 

[Filochard]

Sorry DH they were.

It was bothering me to change my way of playing, so I dig in the bug thread (just by searching post with "forestry") and saw post #450 by Glaucus B. It helps me manage to narrow where the change was made. it was in rev 9987 .
Here a save with rev 9986. I gave forestry to the stone thrower and hillsman to the clubman. At that time they are moving like I was used to.

I hope this helps you. Now you'll do as you like, or revert those changes and go back to (for me) old C2C or take a new approach on movement costs.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

There is a big problem with the terrain promotions anyway. Some are much more powerful that the others!

 

[Filochard]

I agree, those 2 (forestry and hillsman) and the two with peak crossing are the one I take in priority for movement. There's also Guerrilla and Woodsman that are IMO really powerfull for combat.
The problem is that the AI (as I don't play multi games) never pick them. Perhaps by giving them more priority for the AI could make the game more challenging.

 

[JosEPh_II]

There is a big problem with the terrain promotions anyway. Some are much more powerful that the others!

Wasn't that T-brd's intention with making all these Promotions? Trade-offs and making more sub choices? Has been that way for a long long time.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Wasn't that T-brd's intention with making all these Promotions? Trade-offs and making more sub choices? Has been that way for a long long time.

I didn't make those. That was Hydro and ls612.

 

[Toffer90]

If there is a route on a plot the terrain and feature movement costs are ignored and so are those promotions. Only the moment costs of the route count in that case.

I see. ^^

 

[Dr. Elephant]

Yes Zebras can't be domesticated in real life. They do not exist in hierarchies in the wild. Having a hierarchy allows a human to take over the role lead animal.

The reason they are in game is mostly because there was art for them and not for anything else.

edit If you dislike it and don't want it in your game it is possible to turn some of them off. I am working on getting most of them optional.

Correct.

Riding deer in war has actually been done. In WWII I think. I don't think it was fighting from deer back but more like what used to happen with horses. They were used to get you quickly to where the fight was. Then you dismount and fight.

True. Also don't forget the Saami who use them on a everyday base. And also the Tsaatan people:

, which may explain why I have (once) readed an article about Mongolian warriors riding deers.

 

[Filochard]

What do you think of the addition of the Tamed Hyena and make it available in the tamer complex ?

 

[DC0]

Can anyone else confirm that units with only one move like the clubman used to get a second move somehow from those promotions?

If that's the case i must have somehow broken this.

Oh! Might this be a reason that Workboat (classical), while it should be able to move 2 tiles in a turn, now can only move 1 tile?