Caveman 2 Cosmos (ideas/discussions thread)

[Thunderbrd]

I used to think that the "size matters game mode tended to benefit weak players as it potentially allows them to confront powerful AIs which are ahead in tech with regards to them, however, the empirical evidence of my own game experience has shown me quite the opposite in that regard: as unit merges can be a huge hammer cost for the weak AIs (and the human player at the high difficulty settings I frecuently play on) if they want to confront more powerful AIs, as a matter of fact, the "size matters" game option rewards powerful AIs that are ahead in tech as it can potentially prevent them from spending millions (millions!) of hammers in weaker merges of technologically-inferior units.
Playing size matters at high difficulty levels can put a strain in gameplay balance, and it can be quite nightmarish and even gamebreaking for such things as hunting early on the game.
A couple of game options that prevented Animal AIs from merging its units or that makes technologically advanced merges more costly would be welcome.

1) It intensifies some things, yes. That's probably unavoidable.
2) The animal issue with large herds has a plan to be addressed with some combat abilities and combat dynamics to come that can cause force split events to take place during combat that then re-initialize combat with one of the branches of the split. AKA, a Lion attacks a herd and eventually isolates one of the herd rather than tries to fight them all, and the herd isn't exactly trying to fight back (usually) in that case. Some dynamics to show this sort of combat result is needed. Hunters don't usually try to kill every animal in a large group of them, just the one they want to take from the group. Some morale based rules are hopefully to go into development soon and I'm still debating which is more important to develop first as that seems to be potentially one big reason for this splitting effect.

One can always manipulate the spawn infos but I'm quite happy that hunting is not a 'kill everything you see' affair and is actually a bit of a game of judgment calls and stealth and sometimes the hunter becomes the hunted in Size Matters. Hunters are not really meant to be going it alone until they are made stealthy enough to get away with it and even then maybe an accompanying scout to draw away the serious predators that are better at it than your hunter is still a valid strategy to help ensure yoru hunter's survival. It's not impossible - it's challenging, and nothing is worse than a game that isn't challenging.

 

[TaylorItaly]

About hunting and size matters i am absolut opposite to the opinion of @Esfera .
I find it very realistic , that in the beginning of the Hunting Era my chaser and spearmen allways are in the run away from large groups of animals.
And it is so satisfying to put an speermen on a forest hill with 100% tile defence and then with a bit of luck , he survive the attack of a 6.75 Caribou.
But has to run again if a 10.50 group is in sight.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Right, all those GlobalDefinesAlt defines I added owerwrite an identical one in GlobalDefines. I just forgot to remove it from the alt file after moving away from using the define. During merge I will move all those in GlobalDefinesAlt that belong in GlobalDefines back to GlobalDefines. I don't think I'll change the GlobalDefinesAlt file in SVn at all during the merge I mean.
Right, I actually removed RoMGameUtils from the SVN some time ago... Forgot to remove the equivalent empty file from PPIO afterwards.
Thanks for mentioning it, though I will delete all the empty python files during merge.

The GlobalDefines is supposed to hold the default Civ IV GlobalDefines while the GlobalDefinesAlt holds the mod values and overwrites the GlobalDefines. That way you can see what is mod specific. Very useful in tracking down stuff also.

Since it would be trivial to do it may be something useful to set up.

On another trivial thing, I see the change to fix the Era in the Custom Start was not done. It is caused by the .exe which expects ERA_ANCIENT to be the name of the first era.

• Step 1. in all code dll, python, xml, config and ini change ERA_ANCIENT to ERA_SEDENTARY
• Step 2 in ditto change ERA_PREHISTORIC to ERA_ANCIENT
• Step 3 recompile dll
• release

 

[Toffer90]

The GlobalDefines is supposed to hold the default Civ IV GlobalDefines while the GlobalDefinesAlt holds the mod values and overwrites the GlobalDefines. That way you can see what is mod specific. Very useful in tracking down stuff also.

Hmh, pretty much exactly the argument I used when I decided to put my global define changes in the "alt" file.
Though I considered PPIO a mod and C2C vanilla. ^^

On another trivial thing, I see the change to fix the Era in the Custom Start was not done. It is caused by the .exe which expects ERA_ANCIENT to be the name of the first era.

Is this only a small problem after reinstalling BtS completely?
Or rather when this is set in the CivilizationIV.ini file?

GameOptions = EMPTY​

Yes it is, right, no need to answer me. ^^

 

[Yudishtira]

In Age of Wonders III, if you don't have Open Borders, you can still 'trespass'. However, trespassing units become in effect HN, in that the enemy civ can attack them without declaring war.

I think this is an elegant solution that shows up the unacceptable inflexibility of Open Borders as is. Is this doable, and if so, can we agree it would be desirable?

 

[Thunderbrd]

In Age of Wonders III, if you don't have Open Borders, you can still 'trespass'. However, trespassing units become in effect HN, in that the enemy civ can attack them without declaring war.

I think this is an elegant solution that shows up the unacceptable inflexibility of Open Borders as is. Is this doable, and if so, can we agree it would be desirable?

No... disagree. That would diminish the specified roles of strike teams and ruffians. Further, I think DH would have a big big big problem with this. However, I do see some potential to enable something closer TO this mechanism in the late stage development of Outbreaks and Afflictions where Criminal Behaviors become a state that units can pick up individually.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

In Age of Wonders III, if you don't have Open Borders, you can still 'trespass'. However, trespassing units become in effect HN, in that the enemy civ can attack them without declaring war.

I think this is an elegant solution that shows up the unacceptable inflexibility of Open Borders as is. Is this doable, and if so, can we agree it would be desirable?

No... disagree. That would diminish the specified roles of strike teams and ruffians. Further, I think DH would have a big big big problem with this. However, I do see some potential to enable something closer TO this mechanism in the late stage development of Outbreaks and Afflictions where Criminal Behaviors become a state that units can pick up individually.

Open Borders and Right of Passage allow different types of units to cross your borders. I would actually like the treaties not to be solely based on cultural borders. Crossing unworked plots should be fine before the ideas of treaties and "this is my land" are actual things. Only entering worked tiles without permission should cause war. Sort of the land based version of TB's argument for ships to be able to enter water territory of other nations.

edit note that the AI will always attack HN units. This is still a problem.

 

[Thunderbrd]

edit note that the AI will always attack HN units. This is still a problem.

Wouldn't you if you were able to? I mean, the opportunity to get a good pot shot in on an opponent unit is hard not to jump at.

 

[Yudishtira]

No... disagree. That would diminish the specified roles of strike teams and ruffians. Further, I think DH would have a big big big problem with this. However, I do see some potential to enable something closer TO this mechanism in the late stage development of Outbreaks and Afflictions where Criminal Behaviors become a state that units can pick up individually.

Ok I need to clarify: the offending unit does not become HN, but the civ it encroaches upon can attack it without declaring war. The encroaching civ must still declare war before the unit can commit hostile acts, this is purely for the sitch where the cultural borders prevent a unit or stack from passing by. Generally if it is not a multi-move unit (eg. mounted, dog or naval), you won't do it because it's suicide.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Wouldn't you if you were able to? I mean, the opportunity to get a good pot shot in on an opponent unit is hard not to jump at.

No. If I could I might take the opportunity for trade and other negotiations. Not everyone believes civilization is all about warfare. In fact Sid Meier's complained that people played Civilization as if it was a war game when it was not intended to be.

 

[Thunderbrd]

No. If I could I might take the opportunity for trade and other negotiations. Not everyone believes civilization is all about warfare. In fact Sid Meier's complained that people played Civilization as if it was a war game when it was not intended to be.

Then such units should be somehow positive for the receiving end as well. (normal) Trade missions should give some gold to the player who's city has been traded with. That said, I'm not talking about trade units here.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Then such units should be somehow positive for the receiving end as well. (normal) Trade missions should give some gold to the player who's city has been traded with. That said, I'm not talking about trade units here.

Neither am I.

 

[Toffer90]

@raxo2222: When you merge module text XML into core, pleas sort them alphabetically, I think most core text xml is alphabetized atm, there may be exceptions though and then it's ok to just add the new ones at the end.

If you don't want to do that sorting for some reason, at least add a <!-- Unsorted --> comment above the top entry that breaks the sorting.

Edit: {
@raxo2222: rev. 10713 notes:
Looks like you lost the unit belonging to UNITCLASS_STEPHEN_AUSTIN. A duplication of UNIT_TUGAY_BEY took his place in the xml order it seems.

(Edit: Though you removed the duplicate in the next revision).​

UNIT_MAIZE_CARAVAN, a national unit, ended up in the Heroes_CIV4UnitInfos.xml instead of the CulturalUnits_CIV4UnitInfos.xml.
UNIT_CAO_CAO got duplicated.
UNIT_ERNA, a national unit, ended up in the Heroes_CIV4UnitInfos.xml instead of the CulturalUnits_CIV4UnitInfos.xml.
UNIT_ROYAL_SPECIAL_FORCES, a national unit, ended up in the Heroes_CIV4UnitInfos.xml instead of the CulturalUnits_CIV4UnitInfos.xml.

If you've fixed this already, then great.
}

 

[raxo2222]

@raxo2222: When you merge module text XML into core, pleas sort them alphabetically, I think most core text xml is alphabetized atm, there may be exceptions though and then it's ok to just add the new ones at the end.

If you don't want to do that sorting for some reason, at least add a <!-- Unsorted --> comment above the top entry that breaks the sorting.

Edit: {
@raxo2222: rev. 10713 notes:
Looks like you lost the unit belonging to UNITCLASS_STEPHEN_AUSTIN. A duplication of UNIT_TUGAY_BEY took his place in the xml order it seems.

(Edit: Though you removed the duplicate in the next revision).​

UNIT_MAIZE_CARAVAN, a national unit, ended up in the Heroes_CIV4UnitInfos.xml instead of the CulturalUnits_CIV4UnitInfos.xml.
UNIT_CAO_CAO got duplicated.
UNIT_ERNA, a national unit, ended up in the Heroes_CIV4UnitInfos.xml instead of the CulturalUnits_CIV4UnitInfos.xml.
UNIT_ROYAL_SPECIAL_FORCES, a national unit, ended up in the Heroes_CIV4UnitInfos.xml instead of the CulturalUnits_CIV4UnitInfos.xml.

If you've fixed this already, then great.
}

Tons of text is unsorted alphabetically though.

Also some of those units could been misplaced before I started merge - I selected each unit with COMBAT_HERO, and then I moved it to core Hero infos.

Also looks like Stephen meant to go not duplicate of TUGAY

CAO_CAO was in core and in module before merging.
It could been 'triplicate" not duplicate.

This notepad++ regex trick:
Find: "^(.*?)$\s+?^(?=.*^\1$)" -> Replace with "----------------------" allows me to find duplicates.
I just to have find given type of tag in all files, duplicate will be pointed out with "----------------------"

And those errors are now fixed.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I have just lost almost all the work I was doing. Please don't update any files in my Modules area at the moment, just tell me what you want to change. I had moved all the art from the experimental animals and about half of the unit details into core but that is all gone now. I thought I had put all my work on my copy of the SVN so when I updated they would be merged or I would be notified of conflicts but that did not happen

edit Yes mostly due to changes in the way the SVN works or how I have it set up. I just recently had to reinstall it. As I said before you could have your updates ready to go on your version and apply all the updates from the master SVN when it found differences it would merge them if it could and warn you if it couldn't.

 

[strategyonly]

put this here rather than SVN thread. . see pic, about 10 questions there

 

[raxo2222]

put this here rather than SVN thread. . see pic, about 10 questions there

You can hover over Era and it will display era name

Also city icons can be made smaller, just click on one and select smaller number.

@Toffer90 can enlarge flag and move arrows away from each other.

Also I don't think 1024x768 is supported any more, same with @Dancing Hoskuld
Try bit bigger resolution.
I have 1280x1024.

Spoiler :

Toffer set font sizes to 13/15/17/19/21
I changed them myself to 13/14/15/16/17 in Caveman2Cosmos\Resource\Theme\C2CTheme_Common.THM (can be opened with Notepad).

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Also I don't think 1024x768 is supported any more, same with @Dancing Hoskuld
Try bit bigger resolution.
(can be opened with Notepad).

Big problem if this is the case. It means I can't play C2C any more

 

[raxo2222]

Big problem if this is the case. It means I can't play C2C any more

You must have very ancient graphic card or monitor.

I could be misremembering this and that resolution is supported, but you must fiddle with font sizes by yourself.
For example you and SO would prefer font sizes of 14/14/15/16/18 or something like that.

Now you can easily check your subdued animal stuff, and Joseph can check civics in pedia and in new civic screen too.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

You must have very ancient graphic card or monitor.

I could be misremembering this and that resolution is supported, but you must fiddle with font sizes by yourself.
For example you and SO would prefer font sizes of 14/14/15/16/18 or something like that.

Now you can easily check your subdued animal stuff, and Joseph can check civics in pedia and in new civic screen too.

No I have old eyes and my glasses cost a fortune for the lenses.