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Caveman 2 Cosmos (ideas/discussions thread)

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Caveman 2 Cosmos' started by strategyonly, Sep 3, 2010.

  1. Osk21

    Osk21 Barbarian Killer win Peace thru War!

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    This is the best Civilization Mod ever for any version of Sid Meier's Masterpiece. Thanks to All for your continued brilliant and hard work that have provided so many hours of enjoyment for me personally.
     
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  2. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    I didn't have a lot of time earlier to discuss this so made a more generic statement I hoped might convey some of my thoughts in a more condensed manner. Now that I have a bit of time:

    1) I think it would be micromanagement hell to be defining every role in the tribe. I'd prefer to not have to think about the accounting of how many are children, how many are women etc... and would think it would be more pleasant gameplay to allow a lot of that to be beneath the resolution of detail that needs to be considered. Yeah, it would give more options, but it would also give a lot more demand to track each and every person and at the point that the tribe becomes a city, that resolution of interaction would be lost and would be a bit jarring. Besides that, it begs for huge adaptations to AI to go that route, basically an entire game's worth of new features to work with... *shudder*. I'd much rather see us do something that works a bit more simply at first and if we want to start digging deeper into further depth, fine, but we've gotta do this in steps away from the game we basically have. If we make too many new dynamics with this then it will quickly become an unviable project so we really have to be thinking in much more minimalist terms as modders here to adjust the game but not trying to write an entirely new one. Determining how many people are basket makers would be getting far too into the weeds of complexity imo.

    2) I would really like to be able to simply make the buildings we have convert over to either promotions that can be purchased with accumulated production or improvements that can be placed by gatherer units (and potentially even the tribe could be made capable of building some plot improvements as well (with production expense rather than by spending a lot of time there.)) In this way, a player of the core game without this option would be able to easily relate to the roles and purposes of these buildings and improvements.

    What would be an improvement? Berry Bushes. Adds an extra food production to the plot. Consider it a 'seed gathering camp' but I was thinking it might be more that berries becomes a resource and it's not actually placing an improvement to place berry bushes but rather placing a very lowgrade 'bonus' on the plot. When a city is placed and the plot with Berry Bushes becomes part of the city's territory by ownership, the berries vanish on the plot and become the berry bushes building in that city. Yes, more than one can be placed, indicating the people have been planting these berries along their migration routes so that the next time they return to that plot to collect from it, it's a more food productive plot. This sort of thing would be the early equivalent of agriculture basically.

    A canoe builder's hut might be an improvement. When on that plot, the canoe units may be purchased, and the plot acts like a fort that allows for naval units to coexist with land units there. This is how the tribe would be able to build some boats that could take them to other landmasses.

    What would be a promotion (building type)? Community discussions for example. Basket Weavers was a good example (we called it recently a basketweaver's hut).

    I was thinking we'd go through all buildings and determine which becomes a promotion and which becomes an improvement or some other plot item that can be placed. When a city is planted by the Tribe at the point it qualifies to do so and the mission is undertaken at the desired plot to place the city, these promos would have a tag that indicates what building they automatically add to the city. Until then, they operate by giving the unit whatever tagged benefits the unit needs to get the benefit of. (part of why this becomes a major undertaking of new tags specifically for units and only for Nomadic ones - to which I'm really trying to follow the interesting tech discussions but it went off the rails of what I understand VERY fast. I need to get back to looking at all that and trying to figure out exactly where it loses me and try to start learning what it's all suggesting.)

    Yes, it's good that a unit can track it's properties so there is a lot that can be done to replicate how that works on a city in comparison to how it works on a unit.

    3) I do believe that not all buildings would have to have the same effect as they do in the core game, but perhaps some very much would. In the basket weaving case, just having the promotion should indicate that a percentage of the people know and take part in the weaving of baskets enough to have the promotion, which is giving the tribe more capacity to hold production and food and more capacity to gather yields. Additionally, the promotion should become available or automatically given to gatherer units, enabling them to grab more and deliver more to the tribe, and to hunters so they can carry more of the food they collect before having to return to the tribe to deliver that food they've collected - these units would consume from their own upkeep before adding to the upkeep expenses the tribe consumes that round - in fact, this whole food supply concept could then easily become a major supply line mod for ALL units throughout the whole game, which is a big part of why I wanted to work on developing that for merchants first before diving too far into Nomadic dynamics.

    4) Although a few factors on some units would change or require updates, such as making sure city defense and attack mods apply to any plot where a tribe is, fundamentally, the units we have would not. We'd have the same warrior types and the same costs to produce them (maybe updated to cost part of the population in the tribe and updated so that their food upkeep needs are paid for by the tribe that they are a part of IF there is not a local source - they should be capable of feeding themselves off the land as well, to limits obviously, and if we don't let them collect, we can always send gatherers and hunters with armies to help support them, which should be a rather fun side of maintaining war parties I think.) Again, like with buildings, this becomes the way that we easily integrate this mod into an option that can co-exist harmoniously with the core.

    5) If we want to work with specialized roles, perhaps we could do something along those lines with a system sorta like specialists, maybe where each specialist represents 10 people or something and for every 50 people in the tribe you get 1 to assign, something like that. However, this would again require a LOT of very complex AI work. I'd like to see us at least try to put something together that doesn't require that much management first and then perhaps we could add another sub-option that adds that dynamic. It might be necessary anyhow to help us with the GP system in relation to tribal dynamics.
     
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  3. Osk21

    Osk21 Barbarian Killer win Peace thru War!

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    this is where I am at now....
     

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  4. Dancing Hoskuld

    Dancing Hoskuld Deity

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    There are no cities at this point. The tribe screen is basically a simplified city screen. That is tribe unit is, in code terms, both a city and a unit.
     
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  5. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    Of course. What are you replying to?
     
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  6. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    I need a clean source for the Official 3.19 patch. All links here at CFC are either 404 or download a corrupt file. If anyone has a good link with a proven Good 3.19 patch please post it.
     
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  7. billw2015

    billw2015 King

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  8. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    Nope, tried it 3 times, did not work. I finally found a on a German Civ IV site a working 3.19 Patch. I can now run BtS vanilla. I have the Original Civ IV (Collector's Edition with Civ Iv soundtrack CD) and BtS Expansion 2 CD sets.

    Now I need to set up the SVN to get C2C installed.

    Spent most of yesterday updating win 10 on this new computer to get it all caught up with the Win 10 64 OS. Finally got the 1903 build late evening and then got it update to current around 10pm CDST US.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2019
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  9. strategyonly

    strategyonly C2C Supreme Commander

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    i have a copy if u need it yet??
     
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  10. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    I brought this issue up a while back myself. We really should post it for us if we need it again in the future at least. Apparently steam downloads now don't require it so nobody really cares because we're the oddballs still using original disks.
     
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  11. Nightinggale

    Nightinggale Deity

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    Great. Now I'm an oddball for being business minded. When everybody switched to Steam, some store tried to get rid of their stock and I bought a disc with civ 3+4+all expansions, including colonization for 2/3 of the price of Colonization alone on Steam. It would be crazy not to accept that since it was free shipping (I bought something else anyway). Granted it ended up being "the spare disc", but at that price why not? :)

    As for the issue itself with the patch, we should most certainly put everything online. If the original host dies, then start a new one, preferably one, which is fairly stable for long term storage like sourceforge. We already have the compiler stuff on SF because MS doesn't offer it as downloads anymore. There is nothing more annoying than when you need a patch, modcomp or similar and then all you can find is a dead link.
     
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  12. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    100% Agree!
     
  13. Dancing Hoskuld

    Dancing Hoskuld Deity

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    Sorry that was part of a bigger reply that I got interrupted while putting together. Unfortunately I lost the lot and will have to get back to you later.
     
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  14. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    Rubies and wheat are bonuses but tar is a feature. It's possible and compatible.
     
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  15. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    I found one on a German Civ 4 site. Thanks for offering SO.

    Once I get my old comp back for the Repair shop I will get my HDs back. I have tons of old game patches stored on it.

    Liking my new computer a lot. Just need to add another 8GB of DDR4 2133Mhz memory and a bigger PS. Current 430W Corsair will get upgraded to a 600W. Then I will be able to play my Other Game I love Empyrion Galactic Survival.
     
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  16. Osk21

    Osk21 Barbarian Killer win Peace thru War!

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    I love it the Caveman2Cosmos is such an international team effort and players come from everywhere!
     
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  17. raxo2222

    raxo2222 Time Traveller

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    Do you realize, that you have to use github? I tagged you before.
    @billw2015 @Thunderbrd we need to remove write access from SVN.
     
  18. billw2015

    billw2015 King

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    I am not an SVN admin so I can't do it. I'm going to copy these files now so they aren't lost.
     
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  19. raxo2222

    raxo2222 Time Traveller

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    He did that second time, as if he ignores everything on forums.
     
  20. dsma_bell

    dsma_bell Chieftain

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    Sorry for the inconvenience. :sad:
    I had little time lately, so I missed the location change. I'll switch to git before next commit.
     
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