Caveman 2 Cosmos (ideas/discussions thread)

[irishhombre]

I'm playing SVN, it's no so bad until they can build thugs. After that mark it starts to get annoying, luckily they target the same improvement over and over so I just accept those improvements as sacrifices.

 

[SkipperXIV]

The SVN version should have some better sanity control over how many criminals and such are being deployed. There was a known bug in the release version if that's what you're playing, that was inviting an unvaried AI strategy that was even harmful to the AI in how overly dedicated they were to it. So is the overwhelming aspect of what you're experiencing coming through on an SVN game or release game? Might still need to diminish the strategy some, though it really CAN be figured out how to adapt to.

I am currently playing the release version, yeah. Honestly at this point I'd appreciate a modmod or some advice on how to make one.

 

[Septentrion]

Criminals are a major reason why I maximize chokepoints in my civilization. It's like the state of being in way is perpetual.war. I have to guard this tiles from Barbarians anyways so this hasn't been a prominent problem.

 

[strategyonly]

TB: as long as ur re-doing the units, can we please have a unit with +archers before the Classical era, all that is there is the horseman and that's it.. and its only a +25 against a +50 city defense unit .. and even a 15.75 unit isn't enough to at least slow down the effects of that defense unit ..

thoughts/ideas???

archer pic show stats
unit pic shows units avail before classical era

 

[Thunderbrd]

TB: as long as ur re-doing the units, can we please have a unit with +archers before the Classical era, all that is there is the horseman and that's it.. and its only a +25 against a +50 city defense unit .. and even a 15.75 unit isn't enough to at least slow down the effects of that defense unit ..

thoughts/ideas???

archer pic show stats
unit pic shows units avail before classical era

Swords are anti-archery units (though right NOW aren't specifically declared as such as they are mostly just a touch stronger than concurrent archery units and are given city attack, which is expected to be against archers and often archery units gain actual strength base from buildings when they are in a city ) as are throwing units and there's currently a gap in throwing units in Medieval that will also be solved. In the new review layout, swords WILL be specifically anti-archery units, which will help to directly counter them in the field and so on.

If you're talking pre classical, the javelin line is fairly effective against archers in the field. Speaking in terms of current game balance factors anyhow.

 

[Somebody613]

Swords are anti-archery units (though right NOW aren't specifically declared as such as they are mostly just a touch stronger than concurrent archery units and are given city attack, which is expected to be against archers and often archery units gain actual strength base from buildings when they are in a city ) as are throwing units and there's currently a gap in throwing units in Medieval that will also be solved. In the new review layout, swords WILL be specifically anti-archery units, which will help to directly counter them in the field and so on.

Except WHY should they?
Swordsmen (not armored knights, mind you) actually DO NOT have any advantage over ranged shooters.
Sure, maybe having SHIELDS counts, but do they even have them at this point (it sure isn't reflected in the picture)?
In fact, are they even real swordsmen altogether, lol - their weapons look more like blunt clubs than sharp swords.
Well, in the picture, yeah.
Oh, and I play with static singular units without zooming (battle or field), so I'm not sure how the actual units look, I'm judging the ICON picture here, lol.

 

[tmv]

Except WHY should they?
Swordsmen (not armored knights, mind you) actually DO NOT have any advantage over ranged shooters.
Sure, maybe having SHIELDS counts

Shields, rather high mobility (compared to e.g. Spearmen), and as soon as they have closed in the archers are history.

 

[Somebody613]

Shields, rather high mobility (compared to e.g. Spearmen), and as soon as they have closed in the archers are history.

In the field, but not inside the city walls.
So this should be reflected later on with even more precise subcombatmods, but it makes little sense to apply it blindly everywhere.
Though this problem applies to a lot of stuff, indeed.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Swordsmen (not armored knights, mind you) actually DO NOT have any advantage over ranged shooters

Aside from that they are generally the primary units to use shields, are faster on their feet than many, and CAN use their blades to deflect incoming arrows, it's pretty much largely a matter of setting up a proper system of rock/paper/scissors/lizard/spock that's taking place in that portion of the game's strategic development that gives all units their specific specialized uses.

tmv had a good answer. And inside the city walls, few weapons are as useful in close quarters fighting as a sword that can be swung or stabbed depending on the needs of the situation (which is why they have always been good at city attack).

The basis of these counterbalance of unit type rules will be given the opportunity to be skewed in all sorts of fun ways with equipment mods but what is being established is a strategic assumable baseline. From there things will get weird if you want your units to be less presumptable.

 

[Somebody613]

Aside from that they are generally the primary units to use shields, are faster on their feet than many, and CAN use their blades to deflect incoming arrows, it's pretty much largely a matter of setting up a proper system of rock/paper/scissors/lizard/spock that's taking place in that portion of the game's strategic development that gives all units their specific specialized uses.

tmv had a good answer. And inside the city walls, few weapons are as useful in close quarters fighting as a sword that can be swung or stabbed depending on the needs of the situation (which is why they have always been good at city attack).

The basis of these counterbalance of unit type rules will be given the opportunity to be skewed in all sorts of fun ways with equipment mods but what is being established is a strategic assumable baseline. From there things will get weird if you want your units to be less presumptable.

I merely said that it's incorrect to lump together the very different attack types of:
1. Strictly in the field.
2. Strictly in the city.
3. Assaulting the city.
Hence why I said that it would be solved in the (far) future by giving units more subcombatmods of "where exactly the action happens currently".
With that working, there will be no confusion like "giving swordsmen an attack bonus for being rained upon with arrows from atop the city walls they're standing at", lol.
That's all what I was speaking about here, yup.

 

[Thunderbrd]

I merely said that it's incorrect to lump together the very different attack types of:
1. Strictly in the field.
2. Strictly in the city.
3. Assaulting the city.

This isn't the divide of concern in this matter. The divide of concern is Swords/Spears/Axes/Maces/Bows/Javelins/FireThrowers/LightMounted/HeavyMounted/MountedDismounttoFight etc...how things work in city defense/attack/field defense/attack also is a realm with its own blending into the previous subject.

 

[SkipperXIV]

This is a very minor thing and probably just personal preference, but I wish chariots just upgraded into normal cavalry. Granted, I haven't really used them or anything they upgrade into (still dont really get Civ 4 combat, and also opt for more of a peaceful wonderwhore playstyle) but I think chariots are cool and am not really sold on their current upgrade path.

 

[MacCoise]

So, enjoying a very good challenging game in Ancient era and suddenly i am deep in deficit even at 0% research. the reason?

Population anger because of war meaning none of my pops are working resources/cottages etc. The problem is I play with (start as minor civs) and there seems to be a new mechanic where diplomacy is available before writing?
I don't why a couple of civs suddenly stopped being classed or minors or why my war anger is suddenly so massive...any help?

it's a great game and it would be a shame to lose it but a couple of more turns and I'm toast

 

[VCrakeV]

Was just reading up on cold war era plans to nuke stuff for big plans: artificial lakes and seas, for example. Think we could make features like this through Atom Punk? There could be a "nuclear wreaking crew", or some unit, that can "terraform" terrain and features into certain other ones.

 

[Joij21]

Except WHY should they?
Swordsmen (not armored knights, mind you) actually DO NOT have any advantage over ranged shooters.
Sure, maybe having SHIELDS counts, but do they even have them at this point (it sure isn't reflected in the picture)?
In fact, are they even real swordsmen altogether, lol - their weapons look more like blunt clubs than sharp swords.
Well, in the picture, yeah.
Oh, and I play with static singular units without zooming (battle or field), so I'm not sure how the actual units look, I'm judging the ICON picture here, lol.

I agree, and swordsmen weren't the only ones with shields. Single handed axemen, spearmen, and Macedonian pikemen all used shields historically.

Also most armies in the past had very few actual swordsmen as dedicated infantry. Swords were expensive to make back then and were often reserved for the elite (commanders, noblemen, and generals). The only exception to this were societies that were able to levy vast amounts of taxes in order to equip every common soldier with a sword (A.K.A. the Roman Empire).

There is also no precedent to suggest that a sword would do any better against an archer than any other melee weapon. Especially since a sword has a shorter reach than a spear (the most common weapon used by the common soldier throughout history). If anything another ranged weapon would (like another archer or crossbowman), or something that can destroy the fortification they are standing on (traditional artillery like catapults or trebuchets).

 

[Somebody613]

I agree, and swordsmen weren't the only ones with shields. Single handed axemen, spearmen, and Macedonian pikemen all used shields historically.

Also most armies in the past had very few actual swordsmen as dedicated infantry. Swords were expensive to make back then and were often reserved for the elite (commanders, noblemen, and generals). The only exception to this were societies that were able to levy vast amounts of taxes in order to equip every common soldier with a sword (A.K.A. the Roman Empire).

There is also no precedent to suggest that a sword would do any better against an archer than any other melee weapon. Especially since a sword has a shorter reach than a spear (the most common weapon used by the common soldier throughout history). If anything another ranged weapon would (like another archer or crossbowman), or something that can destroy the fortification they are standing on (traditional artillery like catapults or trebuchets).

That's why I suggested implementing "fight conditions" as well, because in this particular case we have very different outcomes of swordsman-vs-archer, depending on WHERE exactly they meet.
If the archer is behind city walls and the swordsman is in the field - the archer gets the bonus.
If they both are in an open field - the bonus is actually ambiguous, based on yet another condition: distance.
In other words, weapons and equipment in this case have a very ambiguous say on who gets what bonuses.
But that would only matter in a mod that actually wants to implement "realistic" warfare, though C2C is definitely such a mod, lol.

 

[strategyonly]

i believe this is waaaay too many turns , especially on a "normal" game span????

 

[raxo2222]

i believe this is waaaay too many turns , especially on a "normal" game span????

You must be doing something very wrong in game....
Build cottages, not farms for example.

Build commerce and research producers in all cities.

 

[strategyonly]

You must be doing something very wrong in game....
Build cottages, not farms for example.

Build commerce and research producers in all cities.

what r commerce buildings?? all the indicator(s) for it r not there? when building buildings?

 

[Somebody613]

what r commerce buildings?? all the indicator(s) for it r not there? when building buildings?

It's the yellow coin between Culture and Food.
Also, how many cities do you have to begin with?
It doesn't look like you have too many, no?
How are you compared to others?
Like, why did you hide the SCORE table, lol?
You aren't giving us enough data to judge your situation, really.