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Caveman 2 Cosmos

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Caveman 2 Cosmos' started by strategyonly, Aug 25, 2008.

  1. Toffer90

    Toffer90 C2C Modder

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    I second your opinion.
     
  2. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    They are completely relevant to anything but explorer boats. So how is this just making the AI fail? Combatant boats like canoes and rafts get stuck on them just like they should.
     
  3. Dancing Hoskuld

    Dancing Hoskuld Warlord

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    The point is that they don't get stuck on them. It is very easy to make sure that they don't. My rafts pass right over them in one turn with no affect. Just make sure they don't end the turn on the plot. After Seafaring and in your own territory you can just go around them.

    As to the AI
    1) AI Pathing does not take this into consideration so they do suffer damage.
    2) They consider doing the improvements that are now worthless.​
     
  4. raxo2222

    raxo2222 Warlord

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    What about Great Coral Reef natural wonder?

    Aren't there some regular buildings, that require reefs or coral reefs?
    This also will break ALL scenarios and ongoing games, since they all have reefs and coral reefs.
     
  5. raxo2222

    raxo2222 Warlord

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    Or @strategyonly or @Koshling probably placed them here by accident back in 2012.
     
  6. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    Those were placed there as a source for D/L'ing C2C without having to go to a site like ModDB. I asked T-brd to update those over a year ago.
     
  7. raxo2222

    raxo2222 Warlord

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    Thunderbrd doesn't know how to delete or update those files, and alberts didn't respond to post.
     
  8. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    Only the 3 Admins can do anything with those files, alberts2, koshling, and T-brd. T-brd should have full admin privileges for the SVN site. So I suppose he needs to figure it out then.
     
    raxo2222 likes this.
  9. Dancing Hoskuld

    Dancing Hoskuld Warlord

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    By the way, why were Phoenix and Dragon myths effectively moved to Taxonomy (they require a building from Taxonomy) while Mermaid and Unicorn were not? Oh I see, Myth Unicorn has been changed to need Myth Horse, weird since they are rhinos not horses.

    Not mentioned because it is not changed.
    Only a couple of minor buildings and maybe one of the Initial Military promotions.

    Wont break saves. The reefs, their improvements and the buildings will be removed and you will be notified. Game will continue.

    Scenarios will need to change but since they are just like saves the reefs etc will be removed in the first turn.
     
  10. raxo2222

    raxo2222 Warlord

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    Probably because I changed certain boolean from 0 to 1 in building requirements essentially added one building to its requirement, this building can be anywhere in empire. there were 10 such buildings with effectively disabled requirement.

    SVN 10241:
    Changed 10 buildings, that were using improper tag for empire wide building prereq (Must own X buildings).
    Myth/Wonder prereqs (anywhere in empire) are set to not scale with map size.

    For example Harapaan Fake Gems Great Wonder change was from this:
    Code:
                 <BuildingClassNeededs>
                    <BuildingClassNeeded>
                        <BuildingClassType>BUILDINGCLASS_GLAZE_MAKER</BuildingClassType>
                        <bNeededInCity>0</bNeededInCity>
                    </BuildingClassNeeded>
                    <BuildingClassNeeded>
                        <BuildingClassType>BUILDINGCLASS_BEADMAKER</BuildingClassType>
                        <bNeededInCity>1</bNeededInCity>
                    </BuildingClassNeeded>
                    <BuildingClassNeeded>
                        <BuildingClassType>BUILDINGCLASS_GOOD_ASIAN</BuildingClassType>
                        <bNeededInCity>1</bNeededInCity>
                    </BuildingClassNeeded>
                </BuildingClassNeededs>
    to this:
    Code:
              <PrereqBuildingClasses>
                    <PrereqBuildingClass>
                        <BuildingClassType>BUILDINGCLASS_GLAZE_MAKER</BuildingClassType>
                        <iNumBuildingNeeded>1</iNumBuildingNeeded>
                    </PrereqBuildingClass>
                </PrereqBuildingClasses>
                <BuildingClassNeededs>
                    <BuildingClassNeeded>
                        <BuildingClassType>BUILDINGCLASS_BEADMAKER</BuildingClassType>
                        <bNeededInCity>1</bNeededInCity>
                    </BuildingClassNeeded>
                    <BuildingClassNeeded>
                        <BuildingClassType>BUILDINGCLASS_GOOD_ASIAN</BuildingClassType>
                        <bNeededInCity>1</bNeededInCity>
                    </BuildingClassNeeded>
                </BuildingClassNeededs>
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Code:
                   
                      <BuildingClassNeeded>
                        <BuildingClassType>BUILDINGCLASS_X</BuildingClassType>
                        <bNeededInCity>0</bNeededInCity>
                    </BuildingClassNeeded>
    is exactly this internally:
    Code:
    
    
    Anywhere in empire is this example below (needs 1 of X anywhere in empire):
    Code:
                    <PrereqBuildingClass>
                        <BuildingClassType>BUILDINGCLASS_X</BuildingClassType>
                        <iNumBuildingNeeded>1</iNumBuildingNeeded>
                    </PrereqBuildingClass>
    
    <bForceNoPrereqScaling>1</bForceNoPrereqScaling> will force this requirement to be always specified number of buildings.
    So building will always require one X anywhere in empire regardless of map size or some other factors if they exist.

    I'm not sure about example below:
    Either you require two buildings X (one in city and one anywhere else) or first entry is made redundant by second entry.
    Code:
             <PrereqBuildingClasses>
                   <PrereqBuildingClass>
                        <BuildingClassType>BUILDINGCLASS_X</BuildingClassType>
                        <iNumBuildingNeeded>1</iNumBuildingNeeded>
                    </PrereqBuildingClass>
                </PrereqBuildingClasses>
                <BuildingClassNeededs>
                    <BuildingClassNeeded>
                        <BuildingClassType>BUILDINGCLASS_X</BuildingClassType>
                        <bNeededInCity>1</bNeededInCity>
                    </BuildingClassNeeded>
                  </BuildingClassNeededs>
    
    Both PrereqBuildingClass (bForceNoPrereqScaling forces PrereqBuildingClass to not scale) and BuildingClassNeeded always worked like this.

    I'll screenshot buildings that got their requirements changed in that revision.
    Buildings, that I hovered on never were required before my change.
    Spoiler :

    Civ4BeyondSword 2019-06-23 14-45-20-78.png Civ4BeyondSword 2019-06-23 14-47-12-20.png Civ4BeyondSword 2019-06-23 14-47-55-17.png Civ4BeyondSword 2019-06-23 14-46-36-21.png Civ4BeyondSword 2019-06-23 14-44-51-24.png Civ4BeyondSword 2019-06-23 14-50-44-24.png Civ4BeyondSword 2019-06-23 14-51-35-24.png Civ4BeyondSword 2019-06-23 14-51-12-25.png Civ4BeyondSword 2019-06-23 14-49-41-12.png Civ4BeyondSword 2019-06-23 14-52-42-79.png

    Now you need one of them anywhere in empire.
    No idea why no one else caught such serious blunder earlier.
    Homeland Security Agency never required Security Bureau in same city - requirement is unchanged here.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2019
  11. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    Well, now I have to ask how this is happening. Rafts have a movement of 1 so why they are able to pass anything in one turn is the very first of a number of questions I have about what's going on there. Canoes may move 2 but they are supposed to be very capable of getting stuck on them, as with galleys, triremes and basically anything that's not a kayak or an outrigger, at least up to the point of sea movement where it's possible to go around. I'll have to look into how this changed. Coast tiles, like all water spaces, are supposed to cost 2 spaces of movement. Wooden ships are supposed to get double movement over coast terrain. Thus, a wooden boat with a mv of 1 should be able to move 1 space on any type of water tile regardless. A wooden boat with a mv of 2 should be able to move 2 spaces along coast (and with the extra movement cost incurred by a reef or coral feature should be stopped as soon as they move in.) A wooden boat with a mv of 3 should be capable of moving 3 spaces in the coast (at most 2 in the sea or ocean) and should be stopped on reef or coral). The way the kayak and outrigger should work is that they ignore feature movement costs so since they move 2 and 3 spaces respectively, they should be capable of moving through both types of tiles without stopping unless they just end a movement turn there.

    So that's how it's supposed to be working. I'll have to get in and see why it isn't.
     
  12. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    I don't think I did any updating there. I do have admin control over the project but I don't know why anyone put those there in the first place and have no recollection of ever posting anything anywhere. I've never even done a final packaging for release.

    Speaking of that... when we ARE ready to release, nobody is saying they'll do this part so I guess we'll be stuck the freeze for a while til someone is able to do this or explain to me how.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2019
  13. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    I have No Idea what it takes to upload C2C to ModDB. In fact I would have to try and find my ModDB password to even access the site. I also no longer have DropBox since they did all their changes.

    Has SO ever laid out what needs to be done?

    And if raxo's Global is left at 100 then I feel we are at serious risk of releasing another fubar'd release. If it is reverted back to 40 or even it's original 50 then I would say we have a relatively stable release candidate.
     
  14. VCrakeV

    VCrakeV Chieftain

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    Is it just me, or are the Marxist, Collectivist, and Socialized civics rather underpowered? The biggest thing going for Marxism is the large amount of free units, which is kind of moot when you're already swimming in gold (which seems to be the case usually; whether you think it's too much or not, the amount of income one has by the industrial era is so large, that the savings one gets from Marxist is negligible). When you look at everything else, Marxist just seems inferior to earlier options. Collectivist just seems strictly inferior to Capitalist, trading a free specialist in every city; bonus output from specialists; and bonus trade and city outputs for negligible happiness and health bonuses. Socialized seems mostly on par with previous civic options, but its unique building, the Welfare Office, is a complete joke: plus 1 happiness and 2 health at the expense of -10% gold and +10% maintenance.
     
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  15. Toffer90

    Toffer90 C2C Modder

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    I agree, having it at 100 means the AI doesn't think it's in money trouble even when it is on the verge of strike with 0% research, espionage and culture on the slider and still going in minus per turn.
    Using that value there is pretty much the same as disabling code in the dll related to AI money awareness and caution.
     
  16. raxo2222

    raxo2222 Warlord

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    I reverted that global to 40.

    At least I know that money is absolutely no concern for AI at least in Prehistoric era.
    With chipotle you can ctrl+z to reveal map and then you can look at AIs treasure.
     
  17. raxo2222

    raxo2222 Warlord

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    I decided to revert those changes to myths - now they work like they worked since forever.
    That is I removed animal myth requirements from those.

    With PPIO you can see what buildings you can build if you have given terrain or feature in vicinity.
    I screenshoted those buildings, that need reef or coral reef in vicinity.

    Spoiler :

    Civ4BeyondSword 2019-06-24 12-33-36-77.png Civ4BeyondSword 2019-06-24 12-33-41-42.png Civ4BeyondSword 2019-06-24 12-33-45-35.png Civ4BeyondSword 2019-06-24 12-33-43-07.png Civ4BeyondSword 2019-06-24 12-33-34-84.png Civ4BeyondSword 2019-06-24 12-34-01-38.png Civ4BeyondSword 2019-06-24 12-34-05-34.png
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2019
  18. alberts2

    alberts2 Chieftain

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    There's no fixed rule for the water movement cost it depends on what is defined for the Terrain and Feature on the plot.
    I doubt it but maybe at some point the xml was setup this way but at least since case you changed the movement cost calculation this isn't true anymore.
     
  19. alberts2

    alberts2 Chieftain

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    You must have some special kind of high tech rafts because some coastal plots have 3:move: or more movement cost and yet you manage to move thought them with a unit which has only 1:move:.:crazyeye::crazyeye::crazyeye:
     
  20. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    Well I'm wondering how it would've changed.
    That's interesting itself... coast is now 3 Movement points each plot?

    With terrain and feature adding their movement costs together, the coast should, according to the naval review project I was working at a while back, cost 2 movement and then if there's a coral or reef, it should cost whatever they cost in addition. Perhaps this needs to be increased some. So if they cost an additional 2, then the movement cost should be 4 in total, since terrain and feature costs become additive.
     

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