Le Petit Prince
Communist Comrade
Welcome to the CCCP thread (USSR) for communist and fanatics of the soviet empire...
I vote communist in all election (Canada)
I vote communist in all election (Canada)
CCCP
- Thread starter Le Petit Prince
- Start date
TheDuckOfFlanders
the fish collecter
What is the point of you being on this forum?
Flatlander Fox
Armed Cultural Consultant
I have the feeling that you would be the peasant in the communist system... Yeah, that's what usually happens to smart people in a communisitic system... That or they end up dead.
Like that idea?
Or maybe you should look at ALL of the highly successful countries that are currently under a communist government.
It's an nice dreamy economic system, not a good government type.
I'm not much of a bleeding heart liberal, but I want to help out the less fortunate also with government aid. I am not a right winger either. But if you want to try a communist system, join the Army.
You will get paid as much as the guy next to you, whether you deserve it or not. He may or may not work, but he will still get paid. You will to.
You will get fed, you may not like the food so well, but that is too bad.
Your boss will tell you to do things which you consider silly and dangerous, but you will do them or suffer the severe consequences.
I love my job, but I make it tolerable for myself in my own way. Many others are not able to do so.
I suggest you join as quick as possible, that way you can figure out for yourself and get these silly and romanticized ideas out of your skull.
Communist threads make me
.
Like that idea?
Or maybe you should look at ALL of the highly successful countries that are currently under a communist government.
It's an nice dreamy economic system, not a good government type.
I'm not much of a bleeding heart liberal, but I want to help out the less fortunate also with government aid. I am not a right winger either. But if you want to try a communist system, join the Army.
You will get paid as much as the guy next to you, whether you deserve it or not. He may or may not work, but he will still get paid. You will to.
You will get fed, you may not like the food so well, but that is too bad.
Your boss will tell you to do things which you consider silly and dangerous, but you will do them or suffer the severe consequences.
I love my job, but I make it tolerable for myself in my own way. Many others are not able to do so.
I suggest you join as quick as possible, that way you can figure out for yourself and get these silly and romanticized ideas out of your skull.
Communist threads make me
.
TheDuckOfFlanders
the fish collecter
You rather would be forced to invent new weapons under gunpoint.
Maybe ,MAYBE time will prove different.Also about capitalism.
Flatlander Fox
Armed Cultural Consultant
Unless they are all on hash or LSD.
People compete against one another, that is nature.
Capitalism has a better chance of utopia, but a mix of both is best for all.
Capitalism=Rich people happy. Poor people stepped all over.
Communism=Rich people dead. Government riches distributed unevenly. Poor people held at gunpoint to stay poor.
People compete against one another, that is nature.
Capitalism has a better chance of utopia, but a mix of both is best for all.
Capitalism=Rich people happy. Poor people stepped all over.
Communism=Rich people dead. Government riches distributed unevenly. Poor people held at gunpoint to stay poor.
You see...what I like about Communism is that everyone is treated equal. Money, race, sex aren't supposed to matter. The government doles out the profit of the country equally.
The whole motivation for the worker is to improve the country, therefore improving his own situatition. Unfortunatally, at our current state of evolution, the simple man can't see into the long run. They get lazy and stop working. And instead of others around him working harder to make up for it....they start to get lazy as well. It begins a downward sprial...that is very hard to break. But...when mankind is over the things that makes us different and can see the big picture...then Communism will work and THEN it will flourish!
CornMaster = Idealistic.
Other reasons Communism has failed thus far are:
1) It's not TRUE communism. The Government plays favorites and shoots itself in the foot.
2) Leaders of Communist countries, for the most part, have been dictators. You need to be a fully functional Democracy for it to work well.
3) Size. The countries that Communism has been tried (Russia/China) are huge. It is nearly impossible to control a country this vast. Smaller countries would be much more apporiate to start with. Then grow to include bigger countries.
4) Capitalism. Capitalist countries sabatoge Communist countries because if Communism worked, the poor capitalists would join them. Without anyone for the rich capitalists to exploit they will eventually become poor as well and then there is no more Capitalism. Rich people hate to loose the illusion of power that money gives them. And since they have the money they can "buyout" the Communists.
5) Technology. The technology level of Communist (and Capitalist) countries so far is not high enough to even take care of it's population. Once hunger, deasease, and pre-mature death is eliminated Communism will be much more viable. By this time, distance will mean very little and we will be able to transport goods and people vast distances with little trouble. (Of course these go hand in hand with number 3)
6) Reputation. Due to past failures in other Communist countries, people are wary of communism. Not fully looking at it potential but only looking at the failures. Instead of looking for ways to improve it and make it work...people spend their time critizing it.
7) Brain Washing. Most people (not so much today....but 10 and more years ago) were taught that Communism = Red = Commie = bad = death = persucition = poorness. If people could come out of the mind set the commies = bad then we would have a chance. (This goes in hand with 6)
And well....I'm sure there are more, but I can't think of them right now.....and that's enough writing for now anyway.
The whole motivation for the worker is to improve the country, therefore improving his own situatition. Unfortunatally, at our current state of evolution, the simple man can't see into the long run. They get lazy and stop working. And instead of others around him working harder to make up for it....they start to get lazy as well. It begins a downward sprial...that is very hard to break. But...when mankind is over the things that makes us different and can see the big picture...then Communism will work and THEN it will flourish!
CornMaster = Idealistic.
Other reasons Communism has failed thus far are:
1) It's not TRUE communism. The Government plays favorites and shoots itself in the foot.
2) Leaders of Communist countries, for the most part, have been dictators. You need to be a fully functional Democracy for it to work well.
3) Size. The countries that Communism has been tried (Russia/China) are huge. It is nearly impossible to control a country this vast. Smaller countries would be much more apporiate to start with. Then grow to include bigger countries.
4) Capitalism. Capitalist countries sabatoge Communist countries because if Communism worked, the poor capitalists would join them. Without anyone for the rich capitalists to exploit they will eventually become poor as well and then there is no more Capitalism. Rich people hate to loose the illusion of power that money gives them. And since they have the money they can "buyout" the Communists.
5) Technology. The technology level of Communist (and Capitalist) countries so far is not high enough to even take care of it's population. Once hunger, deasease, and pre-mature death is eliminated Communism will be much more viable. By this time, distance will mean very little and we will be able to transport goods and people vast distances with little trouble. (Of course these go hand in hand with number 3)
6) Reputation. Due to past failures in other Communist countries, people are wary of communism. Not fully looking at it potential but only looking at the failures. Instead of looking for ways to improve it and make it work...people spend their time critizing it.
7) Brain Washing. Most people (not so much today....but 10 and more years ago) were taught that Communism = Red = Commie = bad = death = persucition = poorness. If people could come out of the mind set the commies = bad then we would have a chance. (This goes in hand with 6)
And well....I'm sure there are more, but I can't think of them right now.....and that's enough writing for now anyway.
TheDuckOfFlanders
the fish collecter
well ,maybe robotics will make a new sort of communism possible.
it could be long ,but in time ,more and more production will be taken over by computers. (like it is now)
That doesn't work that well in a capitalistc system (employement is very important ,since people need money to buy the products.
A communist system doesn't have that sort of problem's.
That is a bit short explaind.i can make a long post about the possible future importance of robotics in a communist system ,but it would so easely critticized.
However ,i believe the future system will be a communism where computers & robots do all the work (and even all the thinking) ,but that is not for now yet ,maybe even not for within 100 years.
it could be long ,but in time ,more and more production will be taken over by computers. (like it is now)
That doesn't work that well in a capitalistc system (employement is very important ,since people need money to buy the products.
A communist system doesn't have that sort of problem's.
That is a bit short explaind.i can make a long post about the possible future importance of robotics in a communist system ,but it would so easely critticized.
However ,i believe the future system will be a communism where computers & robots do all the work (and even all the thinking) ,but that is not for now yet ,maybe even not for within 100 years.
floppa21
Crusty Manhole
Isn't the USA a communism right now? I FLOPPA21 pay extra every single month on my phone bill so others who "can't normally afford a phoneline" can have one. And it is mandatory.
I FLOPPA21, pay taxes so others can be on welfare and collect social security. Will either exsist when I am eligible to claim support from either? And it's mandatory.
I FLOPPA21 pay taxes to help the government keep the country running, to fund SCHOOLS and RECREATION, or to LINE GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS POCKETS. And it's mandatory.
I know I know. I'm fulla crap. I say Communism is impossible because too many people are not all for the same ideal. DuckofFlanders may have a point on the robotics/automation thing...
I FLOPPA21, pay taxes so others can be on welfare and collect social security. Will either exsist when I am eligible to claim support from either? And it's mandatory.
I FLOPPA21 pay taxes to help the government keep the country running, to fund SCHOOLS and RECREATION, or to LINE GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS POCKETS. And it's mandatory.
I know I know. I'm fulla crap. I say Communism is impossible because too many people are not all for the same ideal. DuckofFlanders may have a point on the robotics/automation thing...
PinkyGen
Paper copying intern
Hmm, I'm taking a class right now in college all about the Soviet Union.
Unfortunately, we're in the middle of the civil war right now, so I'll get back to the communist aspect later.
Unfortunately, we're in the middle of the civil war right now, so I'll get back to the communist aspect later.
amadeus
Bishop of Bio-Dome
Communism doesn't stop corruption, it breeds it. I'm a hardcore Republican, and I know that anything the government can do, companies can do twice as better at half the cost.
As one who has had the "pleasure" of living under this thing of wonder, communism, I'm afraid I must decline to agree with you on its merits.
In my college years as communism collapsed around Eastern Europe, the hunt was on for the mass graves of neighbors and friends who had disappeared at the various convulsions, and plenty were found. You may have your lovely fantasies about communism, but be so glad you live in Canada and have never had to actually experience it.
BTW, "CCCP" - which stands for the Russian "Sojuz Sovjetskikh Sotsialisticheskikh Respublik" and is pronounced by Russians as "SSSR" - inspired some subversive humor. In Hungary, there was a children's cartoon/animated hour every evening on television that began with a clay-mation bear getting ready for bed. When he got to the part where he'd brush his teeth, he'd say as he spat into the sink "tse-tse-tse-PUH!" (which is how a Hungarian would pronounce "CCCP").
Here's an old 1970s Polish joke:
"Q: What would happen if they declared a communist people's republic in the Sahara Desert?"
"A: Within 3 years they would have to import sand."
In my college years as communism collapsed around Eastern Europe, the hunt was on for the mass graves of neighbors and friends who had disappeared at the various convulsions, and plenty were found. You may have your lovely fantasies about communism, but be so glad you live in Canada and have never had to actually experience it.
BTW, "CCCP" - which stands for the Russian "Sojuz Sovjetskikh Sotsialisticheskikh Respublik" and is pronounced by Russians as "SSSR" - inspired some subversive humor. In Hungary, there was a children's cartoon/animated hour every evening on television that began with a clay-mation bear getting ready for bed. When he got to the part where he'd brush his teeth, he'd say as he spat into the sink "tse-tse-tse-PUH!" (which is how a Hungarian would pronounce "CCCP").
Here's an old 1970s Polish joke:
"Q: What would happen if they declared a communist people's republic in the Sahara Desert?"
"A: Within 3 years they would have to import sand."
Az
Emperor
Believing in communism generally is idealistic
Believing in the Sovviet union is something different than believing in Communism. Soviet Communism is not Coummuism. The Soviet Regime was a pure dictatorship that deported more people in concentration camps than nazi Germany; and that is only the top of the iceberg.
Voting comunist is a bit stupid. Sorry about that but I think it is. Those comunist parties nowadays are so pathetic and can't do anything anymore. But I must admit it has a touch of idealism too, since they still go against Globalisation and so on...
Believing in the Sovviet union is something different than believing in Communism. Soviet Communism is not Coummuism. The Soviet Regime was a pure dictatorship that deported more people in concentration camps than nazi Germany; and that is only the top of the iceberg.
Voting comunist is a bit stupid. Sorry about that but I think it is. Those comunist parties nowadays are so pathetic and can't do anything anymore. But I must admit it has a touch of idealism too, since they still go against Globalisation and so on...
Let me re-itterate me first 2 points:
Did I say I like Soviet Communism??? No...it wasn't Communism. And your right...killing the country men is a BAD idea...anyone can see that. That's another reason why it failed. Once all the above conditions are met (In my post) Then Communism will work and EVERYONE will want to be a part.
We aren't at the point of behavioural, and technological evolution yet....but when we get there (assuming we don't nuke ourselves into oblivian first) communism will be the ONLY way to go.
Magnus
Diplocat
By the thread title, I think we are discussing SOVIET style communism, not communism as philosophized in other places. The CCCP had the most outragiously large and corrupt beaurocracy ever seen (the only people who did well were those emplyed by the state). It also took propaganda to such an extreme, that if you disagreed with anything the STATE had decided, you were considered insane, because anything the state said was perfect. I am so happy it is gone.
Communism will almost inevitably lead to dictatorship/oligarchy and repression, It is highly incompatable with democracy and personal freedom, which allow citizens to pursue the own interests, welfare, and judgements. Communism denies choice; citizens continue to choose; police power is used to enforce the lack of choice. Since communism concetrates ecomonic and other decision making in the hand of (typically closely allied) government officails and bureucrats, it mulitplies the opportunity for graft many fold, leading to all: of graft; privilege bestowed by government fiat; hereditary oligarchy, power structures based on personal (rather than state) loyaty and thus dictatorship.
That all communist nations have immediatley or within a very few years become tyrannical police states should give even the most naive here a CLUE.
That all communist nations have immediatley or within a very few years become tyrannical police states should give even the most naive here a CLUE.
Originally posted by Lefty Scaevola
Communism will almost inevitably lead to dictatorship/oligarchy and repression, It is highly incompatable with democracy and personal freedom, which allow citizens to pursue the own interests, welfare, and judgements. Communism denies choice; citizens continue to choose; police power is used to enforce the lack of choice. Since communism concetrates ecomonic and other decision making in the hand of (typically closely allied) government officails and bureucrats, it mulitplies the opportunity for graft many fold, leading to all: of graft; privilege bestowed by government fiat; hereditary oligarchy, power structures based on personal (rather than state) loyaty and thus dictatorship.
That all communist nations have immediatley or within a very few years become tyrannical police states should give even the most naive here a CLUE.
You see...that's excatly what I'm talking about. Instead of focusing on what Communism can be...you focus on what it's been. You put it down with no comments on how to make it work.
You say we are naive, and don't have a clue....well your close minded and brainwashed. The only difference is that we can see what can be, the good and improvment of life for man....and your happy with the corrupt status quo, which has the rich profitting off of the poor.
When I think of the current system...and all of the suffering and subjugation it makes me cringe.
TheDuckOfFlanders
the fish collecter
I tottaly agree with Cormaster here.
Communism is merely a productional system where in theory all output is divedid equaly.In this sense ,communism is ethical more correct to capitalism.Capitalism says those who produce earn ,but that is not ethical correct because the recources of the product are stolen from nature.In an ethical way nobody can claim natural recources to him ,because it's a nature product and is owend by everybody or nobody.
Maybe a perfect communism isn't possibly this day in history ,but technical and social revolution can change that in the future.
and capitalism hasn't proven to work yet.You don't know how capitalism will look like within now an 20 years.The difference in social classes is rising nowadays ,i wonder how our social classes will look like in time.
since nobody got criticism on my robotics/communism point i'll try to better explain it.
robotics is realy something that is starting just nowadays.Already there are coorperations like renault & Bayer who have manufacturing plants with huge output where only robots and a few I.T'rs do all the work.This evolution is normal: computers work 24h/day ,don't cost that much to run& maintain ,don't strike and work more efficient.This is good for the boses ,but not good for the economy ,since a decrease in jobs means that less people have the financial possibilety to buy products.If that would be done on a grand scale in our capitalistic economy's ,it would be disastorous ,since All product's would be produced in mass ,but almost nobody could afford it.
But therefore ity's not nessecarely a bad evolution ,because if it would be done on a grand scale it could mean that eventualy less people would have to work for a production that is greater.
in commuunism ,that isn't realy a problem.Production is devided equaly ,if a total economy would be roboticizd ,everybody would get the same for a zero amount of work.
Afcourse ,how much of the economy can be roboticizd?
1 first of all ,every human action that is based sheer on arm movement can be done by robots.That means that every factory labor can be done by robots.
2 evey administative can theorirtcily be done by computers to ,if the've got the right resources.If youre databases are big enough ,a computer can calculate or proces the information.Every static function can be done by a computer ,if it has the possibilety's and the right software for it.
Artificial intelligence isn't realy something that is big today ,but the technilogical advancements on informatics go fast and in an increasing paste.furthermore ,A.I is growing faster than human intelligence.most people can't immagine yet how such a thing could work.But believe me ,it's posible.Eventualy ,the Human "intelligence" is merely a proces system too.I can tell you a lot more of it (i can program c++
) ,but i won't get thecnical here. (YET)
Eventually ,i am convinced that the computer in time can take over our "thinking production" aswel.i even think it will be in time much better in it than us.once an A.I interface is eventually created ,it could come much smarter than us ,because:
Computers can proces faster ,can have acces to more sources (internet!) ,can store a lot more knowledge than us ,and eventualy work more efficient than us.
It will take time ,but if not in 50 years ,it will be possible once in time. (unless something like WWIII or something happens)
To accomplish something like that is a lot of work.you have to robo-industrialize everything ,from farming to health care.
Although that sounds strange ,don't wory ,not everything will look like a factory.
We should begin with the energy market.Prefferably with renewable recources.Building large roboticizd hydro and solar energy plants would give a lot of cheap (even free) energy.
We also would have to build a new transport network ,or atleast a computer controled transport network, so that it can suppliy rcourses to it's robots.And afcourse continualy robots would have to build robot producing plant's.And make software so that special construction robots can build any kind of robotic plant that is needed ,and so on...
i gona post more later...
Communism is merely a productional system where in theory all output is divedid equaly.In this sense ,communism is ethical more correct to capitalism.Capitalism says those who produce earn ,but that is not ethical correct because the recources of the product are stolen from nature.In an ethical way nobody can claim natural recources to him ,because it's a nature product and is owend by everybody or nobody.
Maybe a perfect communism isn't possibly this day in history ,but technical and social revolution can change that in the future.
and capitalism hasn't proven to work yet.You don't know how capitalism will look like within now an 20 years.The difference in social classes is rising nowadays ,i wonder how our social classes will look like in time.
since nobody got criticism on my robotics/communism point i'll try to better explain it.
robotics is realy something that is starting just nowadays.Already there are coorperations like renault & Bayer who have manufacturing plants with huge output where only robots and a few I.T'rs do all the work.This evolution is normal: computers work 24h/day ,don't cost that much to run& maintain ,don't strike and work more efficient.This is good for the boses ,but not good for the economy ,since a decrease in jobs means that less people have the financial possibilety to buy products.If that would be done on a grand scale in our capitalistic economy's ,it would be disastorous ,since All product's would be produced in mass ,but almost nobody could afford it.
But therefore ity's not nessecarely a bad evolution ,because if it would be done on a grand scale it could mean that eventualy less people would have to work for a production that is greater.
in commuunism ,that isn't realy a problem.Production is devided equaly ,if a total economy would be roboticizd ,everybody would get the same for a zero amount of work.
Afcourse ,how much of the economy can be roboticizd?
1 first of all ,every human action that is based sheer on arm movement can be done by robots.That means that every factory labor can be done by robots.
2 evey administative can theorirtcily be done by computers to ,if the've got the right resources.If youre databases are big enough ,a computer can calculate or proces the information.Every static function can be done by a computer ,if it has the possibilety's and the right software for it.
Artificial intelligence isn't realy something that is big today ,but the technilogical advancements on informatics go fast and in an increasing paste.furthermore ,A.I is growing faster than human intelligence.most people can't immagine yet how such a thing could work.But believe me ,it's posible.Eventualy ,the Human "intelligence" is merely a proces system too.I can tell you a lot more of it (i can program c++
) ,but i won't get thecnical here. (YET)Eventually ,i am convinced that the computer in time can take over our "thinking production" aswel.i even think it will be in time much better in it than us.once an A.I interface is eventually created ,it could come much smarter than us ,because:
Computers can proces faster ,can have acces to more sources (internet!) ,can store a lot more knowledge than us ,and eventualy work more efficient than us.
It will take time ,but if not in 50 years ,it will be possible once in time. (unless something like WWIII or something happens)
To accomplish something like that is a lot of work.you have to robo-industrialize everything ,from farming to health care.
Although that sounds strange ,don't wory ,not everything will look like a factory.
We should begin with the energy market.Prefferably with renewable recources.Building large roboticizd hydro and solar energy plants would give a lot of cheap (even free) energy.
We also would have to build a new transport network ,or atleast a computer controled transport network, so that it can suppliy rcourses to it's robots.And afcourse continualy robots would have to build robot producing plant's.And make software so that special construction robots can build any kind of robotic plant that is needed ,and so on...
i gona post more later...
"Mans unfailing capacity to believe what he prefers to be ttrue, rather than what the facts show"
Try to discover "D3 - intellectual integrity". Even the clueless should learn MORE from a virtual 100% failure rate of communist systems with respect to economics, freedom, and human rights, after wide spread use and decades of experimentation, than "it just needs a little fine tuning". It is a smurfing loser of a system, yesterday, today, and tommorow. After the millions of their own people murdered and billions oppressed by communistic systems and regimes, you would cherefully consign millions more and billions more because your fanciful imagination believes it will work next time, if only "they" will listen to you. There have been thousands or even millions just like you involved with the various communist regimes up to now, many of them far more skilled and idealistic than you, and not any of them could produce success with communism. Any hope you have that you could do so is the height of perverse arrogance.
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