CDG Series Discussion Thread

[Blatc]

This is meant to be a discussion thread for the Community Deity Game series, so that individual threads can focus on their respective games. As there is already a map thread (for multiple series), this thread should cover all other CDG discussion that does not belong in an individual game thread, including but not limited to:

*Achievements
-dealing with meaning and ambiguity in the wording, keeping in mind we have people who speak different languages or are from different countries, and we want the achievements to be as clear and easily understood as possible
-developing, as Grendeldef suggested, "a CFC challenge phrase book where all/most common concepts are defined," which could be included in the OP of future games
-feedback on achievements: are they fitting well with the UU/UA/UB, are they making the game a fun challenge or perhaps too tedious?

*General Series Feedback
-similar to what consentient sought out before starting the new series: are people enjoying the easy/medium/hard rotation? And are the games truly easy/medium/hard? Is there good variety or is every 2nd game essentially the same?

*Hosting
-discussion on rotating hosts and community members contributing to the continuation of the series
-discussion on the finishers spreadsheet
-community members thanking the host(s) for the time they put in to this series

I will suggest that the current host makes a 'teaser' post in this thread 2-3 days before a new game is to be posted, hinting at what the AI and theme of the game will be (to get us excited to play!) and posting a rough copy of the achievements to refine so that, when the map is posted, there is less confusion.

 

[Wild_Woojsha]

I'll shout out a Thank You to everyone involved so far with keeping this series alive. I'm looking forward to trying them again once my computer is fixed, I broke the motherboard being ridiculously careless this weekend trying to add extra parts to my case. I'll finally get to build maps of my own too once that's done, until then I'm stuck though.

I like the idea of closing achievement loopholes, especially regarding those of us who speak English as a second language (I speak Appalachian as my primary language personally). How many other language/translation barriers are we dealing with though on a regular basis that aid to these loopholes? A good quick reference guide may be a good thing to avoid these troubles, I personally think all of the achievements created so far have been great and I hope I can start winning at these maps and earning them.

Big thank you to ST412 and Consentient for creating the first few maps/spreadsheets and hosting the Deity games as well as now Gustavus Rex and Budweiser for carving out a good new immortal series practically overnight.

 

[stormtrooper412]

no probs, it's the least I can do. However, it's also the most I can do, since I really can't spare the time for civving

 

[Blatc]

stormtrooper, in the CDG spreadsheet, it looks like you copied the achievement points for #4 into the #5 columns. Please update when you have a chance.

 

[consentient]

Has anyone come forward with maps for #6?

On another issue, I think people are overly-complicating the language of achievements. If unsure, ask the map provider. We don't need a dictionary for terms. In my experience as a language teacher, dictionaries create more problems than they solve.

 

[beetle]

I will be sending ST412 a Byzantium map in about 12 hours. I am sorry to say that it is on easier side of things. It was my forth try with the AIs that I wanted in, and I didn’t get any of the dynamics I was looking for with the first three rolls.

Map is standard size, standard pace, 8 AI + 16 CS (so standard), AIs manually selected. Standard (not strategic, not legendary) resource distribution.

Map type is Terra Incognita with the same settings Grendeldef used for DCL #43 Japan (so the second continent must exist and is probably connected, and civs can start anywhere).

For VC, I want to suggest anything-but-science because it is one of those maps where SV is easier than Diplo.

I have not come up with any unique achievements, so I suggest this mish-mash:

1. Wreak havoc with the UU (1-4 points)
   1. Killing Spree (please describe): 1 point
   2. Take a city or two: 2 points
   3. Take a cap: 3 points
   4. End the game with six or more rage+logistics battleships: 1 point
2. Religious Domination (1-3 point)
   1. Found a religion
   2. Have your religion as the most populous one (a plurality) by city count.
   3. Have your religion in half or more of all cities.
3. Big Dog on Campus (1-11 points)
   1. Win Worlds Fair, International Games, ISS (1 point each)
   2. Pass World Religion and Worlds Ideology (1 point each, has to be yours of course)
   3. Be the last host, as WC transitions to UN (1 point)
   4. Each NW completed (half point each, so up to five total)

Caveats barely worth mentioning:
1.1 is pretty open, but must be more than barb hunting. And obviously must be with the UU before they are upgraded.
1.2 is not additive with 1.1, but CS are fair game if want to play that way.
1.2 and 1.3 must be done before Renaissance (i.e., no saving a Cataphract to cap a city late game just for the achievement).
No, 1.4 does not guarantee that you start with Dromons, but it will make it easier of course, and that is the spirit in which the challenge is offered.
For 3.4, no exploits like gifting away your Oxford city to build it again.

 

[Wild_Woojsha]

I've been wanting to try Theo with Acken's mod, he bumped Dromons to Optics and brought Trireme's back! See here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=14107218&postcount=736

"-Byzantium
Dromon now available at optics, has 11 ranged strength instead of 10 and Trireme can be built by Byzantium
The Cataphract can always be bought for 150 faith in a city with a religion, even if you don't have the tech or the appropriate belief"

Anyways, as a suggestion for more Unique Achievements, how about these:

1. Reform and enhance your religion when founding (This one might be impossible, but maybe not?). - 5 Points
2. Use only the UU's to take as many coastal cities as possible prior to turn 100 (Weaken with Dromons and capture with Cataphracts) - 1 point for each captured city (After this achievement, Xbow and galleas rush time!!!)
3. Use the UA to take a second enhancer belief to spread your religion faster (This might be a weak move, but it'd be fun to try and see what happens). - 3 points
4. Keep 3 Dromons and 2 Cataphracts alive until the end (Upgraded of course) - 5 Points
5. Get the WC to make your religion the world religion. - 2 points.

The map you rolled might make it impossible to even found depending on who we are up against, but if so I think it'd be fun to get a sweet pantheon and time piety prophet/normal prophet to take 6 beliefs on the same turn!!!! Diplo victory might be good, we haven't had one yet. It's cheesy of course, but they can't all be domination, culture, and science. Besides, who doesn't love a good Piety start on Deity???

 

[Nigel_Tufnel2]

I played quite a ways into a Byzantium game now that ModAcken v4 is out. It was a ton of fun, although part of it was I played level 5 instead of 6 or 7 as I usually do. The buffs to water buildings were fantastic, I love water-based play. I think having a Byzantium CDG with ModAcken would be a great idea, but I would suggest level 7 (Demi-God) because that level is harder than regular Deity, IMO.

[Edit] - It would perhaps be a game where victory is one of the achievements, but points are still gained for the other achievements. Previously it was an accomplishment just to stay alive on Demi-God!

 

[beetle]

I've been wanting to try Theo with Acken's mod, he bumped Dromons to Optics and brought Trireme's back!

Good point! I have been following his developments, so I wish I had considered that... Also having Piety competitive with the other early trees is very compelling. But Mac users, such as myself, get only a lite version of Acken’s mod, and I have not tried it in quite a while.

1. Reform and enhance your religion when founding (This one might be impossible, but maybe not?). - 5 Points

So pursue Piety while sitting on your 1st GPr and waiting for the 2nd GPr? Too much of a gamble for my tastes, even if it is worth 5 points. Encourages too much reloading if it does not work out IMHO. Other CDG achievements have encouraged sub-optimal play but not terrible play. Why would you not found ASAP?

I should have adding Reformation belief and filling out Piety as a point each.

How about enhancing your religion before every civ a pantheon (for one point)? Can you check easily enough in the religious overview screen? Or is this something that happens to at least one civ in most games? Should the achievement be for enhancing before T100? Or T150?

2. Use only the UU's to take as many coastal cities as possible prior to turn 100 (Weaken with Dromons and capture with Cataphracts) - 1 point for each captured city

I agree with bumping the point potential here. Why limit to T100 though?

3. Use the UA to take a second enhancer belief to spread your religion faster (This might be a weak move, but it'd be fun to try and see what happens). - 3 points

Two enhancers is actually strong play, not worth awarding points for. I like Messiah (for cheap GPr) as the bonus belief (since it makes even the 2nd GPr come up quicker).

4. Keep 3 Dromons and 2 Cataphracts alive until the end (Upgraded of course) - 5 Points

The Cataphracts are too hard to track IMHO. I guess you could rename them after they get promoted?

Also, for five points, the requirement should be for more of them. I agree that the 1 point I proposed for six well-promoted battleships is too stingy!

Get the WC to make your religion the world religion. - 2 points.

Okay.

The map you rolled might make it impossible to even found depending on who we are up against

Founding being impossible was among my exclusion criteria for Byzantium. Opponents do not include Celts, Maya, or Ethiopia. Anyone else I should have excluded?

Besides, who doesn't love a good Piety start on Deity?

I have yet to make that work! I might try that, replaying this map.

 

[Wild_Woojsha]

Good point! I have been following his developments, so I wish I had thought about that... Also having Piety competitive with the other early trees is very compelling. But Mac users, such as myself, get only a lite version of Acken’s mod, and I have not tried it in quite a while.

I haven't tried it at all yet, it's on my to-do list with fixing my computer.

So pursue Piety while sitting on your 1st GPr and waiting for the 2nd GPr? Too much of a gamble for my tastes, even if it is worth 5 points. Encourages too much reloading if it does not work out IMHO.

I should have reformation belief and filling out Piety as a point each.

If timed right I think both GPR's can arrive at the same time, maybe. I agree on the serious reload potential though, it could take forever to pull that off. Maybe 3 points for reforming when founding and 5 for smashing two GPR's at once? It really depends on the map though, with 4 Quarries and stone circles founding was simple, but byzantium can never found without serious help.

I agree with bumping the point potential here. Why limit to T100 though?

I figured Dromons and Cataphracts would be useless by then on Deity. By turn 100 its time for Xbows and Galleas's to finish what they started.

Two enhancers is actually strong play, not worth awarding points for. I like Messiah (for cheap GPr) as the bonus belief (since it makes even the 2nd GPr come up quicker).

I figured Itinerant Preachers and either Messiah or Religious Texts would be fun to try, I haven't had the chance to yet. That one needs reworked.

The Cataphracts are too hard to track IMHO. Also, for five points, the requirement should be for more of them. Is the 1 point I proposed for six well-promoted battleships too stingy?

They are just as hard to track. The thing with the achievements you made though is that there are too many of them. The other 5 maps only have 5, and maybe 2 extra sub-achievements if that. Yours has twice that, and all common for all Civs/play styles except for 2.

Founding being impossible was among my exclusion criteria for Byzantium. Opponents do not include Celts, Maya, or Ethiopia. Anyone else I should have excluded?

Those three are notorious, but there are others that don't have bonus's but still create fast religions and missionaries. I can't think of anyone else off hand though.

I have yet to make that work!

I can barely make tradition work, I made these achievements for the pros, not for me.

 

[Sclb]

If timed right I think both GPR's can arrive at the same time, maybe.

It is impossible to get both to arrive at the same time through natural faith generation. It pretty much requires you either delay founding AND to build Hagia Sophia or capture a GPr to found. It is terrible play regardless.

 

[beetle]

In addition to Hagia Sophia, one could closely time the first natural faith one with the Liberty or Piety finisher. I agree it is terrible play regardless.

 

[Sclb]

I didn't include that because you're likely to miss founding a religion by the time of finishing up a tree unless you have significant culture boost or finished oracle.

 

[consentient]

I have to say that such a high level of discussion about maps and achievements before they are posted takes ALL of the fun out of it for me.

 

[consentient]

OK so it's five days since I last posted to this thread, and there has been VERY little action on this board in general, and none on this thread.

I'm going to do Stormtrooper412 a favour and offer to post the next map, since there has been no concrete discussion of a map in the pipeline ready to fall into place.

I see that Beetle made a Byzantium map, and I'd be very happy to play that if its ready.

It also seems possible that ST is himself very busy right now.

I'm not completely out of retirement, but I'll help out those who need a map this time if no other is available. Think of me as Edgar Davids at Barnet.

 

[stormtrooper412]

thanks, I'd appreciate it. I was gonna check out Beetle's map but I can't get around to it, I simply can't get the time for it. I also haven't played a map in quite a while, as well

 

[beetle]

I call dibs on Portugal. It will be TI again, with hand-picked opponents. I now regret that the Portugal DCL had Brazil, Inca, and France (even though those were my suggestion to Acken for Portugal). Or maybe I will try Small Continents Plus if I can figure out how to edit the header portion of the file. I still have not tried IGE, but have had good luck with polar ice not being an issue.

Many players can win by any VC using any civ and under any circumstances, but I am still very much struggling with peaceful CV. Not that Portugal has anything special for CV, but their UB only works for SV and CV.

This would be contingent upon people liking my Byzantium map well enough...

One achievement will be for putting a feitoria in every coastal CS. 5 points?

I am not sure what to do for the Nau.

 

[consentient]

Earn a certain total amount of gold through Nau missions?

Find the spot that provides the highest possible gold?

 

[stormtrooper412]

well I guess it's undecided for Nau

ooooooooooooh the puns

 

[beetle]

The puns are too easy! How about these:

Find a spot that give 300+ gold: 1 point
Find two spots more than 10 hexes from each other that give 300+ gold: 3 points

Get 2000 gold total or more from Nau missions: 2 points

I picked 2000 gold because that is 7 or more Nau. Given that Nau upgrade to Ironclads, and that coal is not always in high supply, and that 7 is common max amount for a strategic resource plot, I don't think the certain total amount of gold should go much above that.

I picked 300 because, from my poor recollection, 300-and-change is about all I got. Supposedly it can be up to 400.