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Cedric Greene's MGE patch on XP

Discussion in 'Civ2 - Technical Support' started by our_man, Jun 18, 2002.

  1. our_man

    our_man Chieftain

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    I just got a new computer with Windows XP and tried to install Cedric's MGE patch. However it wouldn't work as it says it cannot find the XDaemon.dll file, despite the fact that I personally put it in the Civ2 directory. The computer simply refuses to acknowledge it's presence. I managed to get Cedric's patch working properly on my Windows98 system, so I'm assuming the problem must be caused by Windows XP. Has anyone else experienced this problem?
     
  2. Cedric Greene

    Cedric Greene Chieftain

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    Hmmm the installation went ok and its refusing to play or it won't even install? This is strange if you put the file into the directory yourself. I'm going to test it on my XP system...
     
  3. Cedric Greene

    Cedric Greene Chieftain

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    ... worked fine when I used both the .ace files and the .exe to change 2.42 to MGE, so the only thing I can recommend is uninstalling Civ2, reinstalling and then reapplying the patches. Also I'm going to attach a copy of my xdaemon.dll though if you already have a copy I can't see it doing much good. (But I did figure out another problem ;))
     
  4. our_man

    our_man Chieftain

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    I tried reinstalling it with just v2.42 and it working fine now. Thanks for the help. :goodjob:

    Now that it's installed, I've been trying to get the CDcrack for MGE to work, but it doesn't - I'm still getting the noCD message. Cedric, do you know if your patch is compatible with this crack? Also, is it compatible with Angelo Scott's No Limits add on for MGE?
     
  5. Cedric Greene

    Cedric Greene Chieftain

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    hmmm as far as I know the no-cd crack should work as long as its the crack for version 1.3 of MGE (a.k.a. 5.4.0f) which there should be a copy of in the Civ2 downloads section of this site. Make sure you are putting the crack within the civ2 folder before running it.
    Haven't heard of Angelo Scott's no-limits patch but Julius Breznaida's (sp?) works just fine though I think it will cause issues with a no-cd crack.
     
  6. starlifter

    starlifter Chieftain

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    You cannot double patch executables. If you succeed, the result will very likely corrupt the Executable, or cause hangs, or crashs, or (very very remote) loss of all data on your hard disk.


    Lost in Chicago...
    Lets put it this way. An exe is an exact roadmap telling your PC what to do. A patch (crack) changes that roadmap. Imagine you know NYC very well, and can get around blindfolded. But now you get put into Chicago. You will likely be lost, and maybe get smushed. The binary equivilent of getting smushed in Chicago is a hang, crash, reboot, and/or even a corrupted hard disk.

    But don't double patch (hopefully, the patch/crack is a good one and checks the target before blindly applyin a patch). Cedric's MGE executable is probably the original MGE, but it might have been patched already if the NoCD refused to patch it. :)

    For patching/cracking a patched exe, if you are a programmer and can read/edit files, you'll need to create you own patch... then you can patch again and again. I personally recommend SoftIce if you wish to learn :), BTW.
     
  7. Mercator

    Mercator Chieftain

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    Cedric's patch should have any problems with any changed executable... well, at least no different from the "normal" MGE.

    So, the no-limits patch and the no-cd crack should work just fine. If you want both the no-cd and no-limits patches, first install the no-limits patch and then use a no-cd "crack".

    Starlifter's city roadmap metaphor is a bit xtreme there. The difference between the regular executable and the no-limits one is hardly like the difference between New York and Chicago, it's more like changing a dozen or so NYC buildings from X-story buildings to Y story buildings...
    Applying the no-CD crack won't have anything to do with any of those "buildings".
     
  8. starlifter

    starlifter Chieftain

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    .... Depending on how the patch (or crack) is constructed. A patch/crack usually changes certain bytes, but some can shift the bytes in all or most of an executable. The methods of one patch/crack author generally are different than another. If you apply a blind patch (one that does not check, or not check adequately, the target first) subsequently, the executable could be rendered unusable, or even harmful to use.


    Personally, I prefer to simply alter bytes and nullify calls to access the CDROM, usually replacing such calls with NoPs (No operation). This is why things like the Advisors and Throne Room do not work with the Civ2 NoCD (btw, I did not write the Civ2 NoCD crack ;) ).

    People that write good patches/cracks will check the .exe ot ensure it is the exact .exe the patch is expecting. This protects people who try to double patch, or patch the wrong file.

    I don't recommend using a patch/crack to to alter an .exe that it was not designed for (e.g., double patching) ... unless you actually take a look at what it is doing first. Average users have no idea how to do this. Fortunately, most patches/cracks remove this choice from the average user by checking the target files first, and refusing to install if the match is incorrect.


    Cedric's patch uses the original Civ 2 executables, I believe. I used his patch from MGE to FW/CiC/Classic, and the .exe Cedric had for the Classic version (called civ2orig.exe) was identical to the official update (called civ2_242.exe). Here is a screenshot:



    This means, naturally, one could apply a patch intended for the official 2.42 exe to Cedric's civ2orig.exe file with 100% confidence of a properly patched .exe.

    I presume this is the case for the 2.42 to MGE parch of Cedric's. Which means you can apply the MGE "NoCD" patch to Cedric's MGE executable, and it would not be a double patch to begin with. :)
     
  9. our_man

    our_man Chieftain

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    Sorry, I meant Julius Breznaida's no limits patch, which works fine with yours Cedric!

    However the CD Crack is still giving me a lot of trouble. I've tried re-installing Civ2 (v2.42), then installing the MGE patch, followed by Juilus' no limits patch. These all work fine, but then I run the CD crack in the Civ2 directory and nothing happens (I've also tried it using just Cedric's MGE patch and the crack, which also doesn't work)! When I go to click on the Civ2 executable it tells me that it still requires the CD. Does anyone have any ideas? :(
     
  10. starlifter

    starlifter Chieftain

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    I don't want to sound too coarse here, but did you bother to read what I posted? I explained all that in excruciating detail.

    You are lucky the NoCD patch does not work. The author designed it specifically NOT TO WORK FOR PEOPLE LIKE YOU WHO DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT IS REALLY GOING ON WITH A CRACK/PATCH!!

    So.... You need to make your own crack. I suggest using SoftIce as good tool for helping. Of course, it really helps to know something about executables and programming, too.

    So be thankful the noCD crack does NOT get applied. Reread my "lost in Chicago" analogy to help you understand why.

    :)


    PS, I'm not shouting at you, but since you're not reading & comprehending my prior posts, you probably aren't reading this one either ;). And that's OK, btw.... feel free to apply that NoCD patch to any file you desire :).
     
  11. our_man

    our_man Chieftain

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    I'm sorry if I gave you the impression that I didn't bother to read your post starlifter, I did though.

    However if you had read my post properly you would have seen that I also tried to use just Cedrics MGE patch and then the CD crack (as you suggested), but this didn't work either. According to what you posted this should have worked, but it didn't. :confused:

    So does anyone acutally have a copy of Cedrics patch running with the CD Crack succesfully?
     
  12. Cedric Greene

    Cedric Greene Chieftain

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    our_man I believe the problem is JB's no limits patch not being compatible with the crack, have you tried the crack without using JB's patch to see if that works?
     
  13. our_man

    our_man Chieftain

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    I did indeed try it without the no limits patch (i.e. with just your patch Cedric followed by the crack), but it still refused to work; the CD check is still performed. I honestly don't know what's wrong still since I've followed the instructions of the patch to the letter (I've lost track of the amount of uninstalls and reinstalls I've had to perform!). So I'm about ready to throw in the towel. Playing with the CD isn't the end of the world I guess, at least I have a working copy of MGE now! Thanks for your help. :)
     
  14. starlifter

    starlifter Chieftain

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    Here is what the problem is. the file you are attempting to patch is not identical (i.e., the Civ 2 5.0.4f) with the original executable.

    If I read your posts right, you are going from 2.42 to MGE. Yes?

    If so, I do not have 2.42, and have not run that upgrade myself. The data above is for MGE to 2.42, including the excample File Compare.


    1. Make a subdir, like Test1 or something.

    2 Copy the crack and the target exe into it.

    3. Run the crack.

    If that fails, then you either got the wrong .exe, or the .exe is not identical to 5.4.0f (see "lost in chicago").


    If that fails, zip the .exe that you think is 5.4.0f, and attach it as an upload to your post here, and I will look at it myself and tell you if it is good (e.g., identical to the original). :)
     
  15. Cedric Greene

    Cedric Greene Chieftain

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    Hey I just had a thought, did you download the patch from CivFanatics or from my site? I think the one on this site is my second release which already included the no-limits patch and would therefore not work with the no cd crack whereas the third release, the one on my site, is the pure MGE 5.4.0f.
     
  16. our_man

    our_man Chieftain

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    Sorry I took so long to get back to this thread, but I've been really busy! Cedric, I downloaded the patch from your website and it worked perfectly with the CDcrack - it's just the Civfanatics version which isn't compatible with it. I then tried patching it with the nolimits patch, but I was still asked for the CD afterwards.

    So, I can either have the nolimits patch and have to play with the CD, or not have the nolimits patch and play without the CD! I guess I can't have it all. Thanks for all your help regardless of this fact. :goodjob:
     
  17. Mercator

    Mercator Chieftain

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    You should applyi the patch to the no-limits version. The CD-crack makes changes to the Civ2.exe, but the no-limits patch replaces the civ2.exe again, so the CD-crack information will be lost.
    Probably best to backup civ2.exe, in case it gets screwed up.
     
  18. starlifter

    starlifter Chieftain

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    Starlifter's very first sentence in his very first post in this thread:

    To make the point for other people who might be wondering, here is your final conclusion:
    Duhhh..... Reread "lost In Chicago"... and be thankful that the 2 patch designers defeated your every attempt to mangle your .EXEs and possibly (though very remote) even corrupt your machine!

    My final note... the reason the patches cannot be applied consecutively is because one patch does not know the state the .EXE was left in after the other patch was applied -- blindly applying a patch is the mark of a poor programmer/hacker, and in fact since you tried it in both orders, you really owe a nice e-mail of thanks to the authors of both patches for successfully thwarting your double patch attempts ;)....


    PS, I'm not dogging you, but after spending a lot of time trying to explain it earlier, I just want to make sure you know why you should never try this, because next time, a patch author may not be successful in preventing you from shooting yourself in the foot.

    :)

    :cool:
     
  19. Mercator

    Mercator Chieftain

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    That's why I said to try it on a copy... There really is barely any difference at all between the normal and no-limits versions of the civ2.exe (a number has been changed in something like 8 places). The size of both files is exactly the same. If the patch is just remotely well-written it really shouldn't give any problems at all.

    In this case, the worst that can happen is that it doesn't work. It doesn't hurt to try. :p

    There's a much greater chance of downloading a disguised patch which is actually a virus of some sort, than downloading a patch that screws up your computer because you apply it in a wong manner.

    Furthermore, the no-limits patch isn't quite a patch since it simply replaces the executable, it's not a program that makes changes to the executable. So it's not possible to "mangle" any files.

    By the way, I have Test of Time, with the no-limits patch AND the no-CD crack, and it works just fine.
     
  20. starlifter

    starlifter Chieftain

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    For programmers, and people familiar with how .EXEs and .COMs are loaded and executed, the odds of making a few simple alterations of bytes, and then makeing a second set of such alterations, will likely not cause a problem, statstically. However, I have indeed seen huge problems arise (and had to go fix those machines) from corrupted .EXEs. The key is in the skill of the hacker of the second patch that was applied. If the hacker seraches for a totally unique pattern, and not by fixed address (e.g., byte location), even a shifted file (insert new bytes, not merely replace), then a 2nd patch can be successful. There are also other ways a second patch can succeed. There are many ways it can fail. And some ways that failure can cause a system hang, and even cause data loss when the double or triple patched EXE is activated. The odds are small, but odds don't matter when your machine is that one in 10,000 that is screwed up.

    Anyway, I've done my best to at least warn people... the best way is simply to find (or write it yourself) the correct and specific patch for what you want.

    A place to start (if you don't want to write it yourself) is:

    www.gamecopyworld.com

    :)
     

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