Celtic UU and UB questions

[LlamaCat]

I played a bit of a game with Boudica (I had never tried Brennus in Warlords expansion before) and I find the unique unit and unique building combination very curious:

Gallic warrior - a swordsman with the Guerilla I promotion (20% hills defense)
Dun - walls that give units the same Guerilla I promotion

I sort of find these bonuses redundant so they cancel each other out for the UU. If you are making a lot of Gallic warriors, the dun does absolutely nothing for these units, right? And how useful is Guerilla for swordsmen that are mostly used for attacking cities?

Also, isn't the Guerilla promotion only available to archery units and not melee for all other civs?

How best to leverage all this? I know people like playing this Civ but I just can't see much use in this promotion and especially this Dun. I rarely find much use in Guerilla promotions except for the occassional early scout or maybe an archer sitting on a valuable mined hill or something.

 

[stuttrboy]

Also, isn't the Guerilla promotion only be available to archery units and not melee for all other civs?

How best to leverage all this? I know people like playing this Civ but I just can't see much use in this promotion and especially this Dun. I rarely find much use in Guerilla promotions except for the occassional early scout or maybe an archer sitting on a valuable mined hill or something.

Guerilla is only available to archery units regardless of Civ. The Celtic UU only gives the bonus to units eligible for the promotion so melee units won't get it. I find the UU and UB to be mediocre at best, though on a global highlands map they can move pretty fast. In fact they are possibly the least useful of all the UB's and UU's.

 

[madscientist]

I played a bit of a game with Boudica (I had never tried Brennus in Warlords expansion before) and I find the unique unit and unique building combination very curious:

Gallic warrior - a swordsman with the Guerilla I promotion (20% hills defense)
Dun - walls that give units the same Guerilla I promotion

I sort of find these bonuses redundant so they cancel each other out for the UU. If you are making a lot of Gallic warriors, the dun does absolutely nothing for these units, right? And how useful is Guerilla for swordsmen that are mostly used for attacking cities?

Also, isn't the Guerilla promotion only available to archery units and not melee for all other civs?

How best to leverage all this? I know people like playing this Civ but I just can't see much use in this promotion and especially this Dun. I rarely find much use in Guerilla promotions except for the occassional early scout or maybe an archer sitting on a valuable mined hill or something.

It took me awhile to figure this out. The Dun gives a free Guerilla promotion to units that NORMALLY can get it. The means archery units.

Melee, and thus swordsmen, are not allowed guerilla promotions so the dun does not give a free guerilla to axemen. That is where the UU comes in, Gallic warriors are the ONLY melee units in the game that can get the promotion. Get a Gallic to guerille II, upgrade to a MACEman, then stick them on a hill city and see how long it takes for the AI to capture it, or better yet recapture it once you take a hill city. Guerilla III MAcemen means +50% versus hilltop cities.

Gunpower untis are a little more tricky with the dun. Muskets can get free guerilla but rifle do not (duns goes obsolte with rifling) so best to build ALOT of muskets and upgrade.

I believe that is how it goes, someone will correct me if I am wrong.

 

[Atlas]

I played a bit of a game with Boudica (I had never tried Brennus in Warlords expansion before) and I find the unique unit and unique building combination very curious:

Gallic warrior - a swordsman with the Guerilla I promotion (20% hills defense)
Dun - walls that give units the same Guerilla I promotion

I sort of find these bonuses redundant so they cancel each other out for the UU. If you are making a lot of Gallic warriors, the dun does absolutely nothing for these units, right? And how useful is Guerilla for swordsmen that are mostly used for attacking cities?

Also, isn't the Guerilla promotion only available to archery units and not melee for all other civs?

How best to leverage all this? I know people like playing this Civ but I just can't see much use in this promotion and especially this Dun. I rarely find much use in Guerilla promotions except for the occassional early scout or maybe an archer sitting on a valuable mined hill or something.

Guerrilla 2 Gallic Warriors are like Longbows for defending cities on hills. They protect stacks going to attack awesome. You can still use them to attack cities, in fact you don't need iron, just copper to get them too. This is great unit.

The Dun RULEZ, archers, longbows, crossbows, etc. will all get the bonus.

You are looking for synergy b/w the UU and the UB, well it does not exist, but don't let that fool you. The vast majority of civs have no synergy b/w the UU and UB too, if fact it would be unbalancing if they did.

 

[madscientist]

You are looking for synergy b/w the UU and the UB, well it does not exist, but don't let that fool you. The vast majority of civs have no synergy b/w the UU and UB too, if fact it would be unbalancing if they did.

Exception: Mongols

 

[LlamaCat]

ok thanks for the tips! I think gallic warriors require iron because they are swordsmen ... at least that is according to the documentation. that would be a great bonus if they didn't require iron and make them right up there with the Praets in my opinion. anyway I think for my play style this is a bit of a weak civ. I am not on defense much in games. I see some value in the unit but it requires cities to be on hills.

 

[madscientist]

If you are playing BTS, Gallics require only copper.

 

[LlamaCat]

wow I didn't know that, so that was an update in BTS. I have new respect for the Gallics. Then again, I rarely get copper in my early locations anyway

 

[Atlas]

I think gallic warriors require iron because they are swordsmen ... at least that is according to the documentation. that would be a great bonus if they didn't require iron and make them right up there with the Praets in my opinion. anyway I think for my play style this is a bit of a weak civ. I am not on defense much in games. I see some value in the unit but it requires cities to be on hills.

 

[Roxlimn]

Gallic Warriors require Copper OR Iron.

 

[stuttrboy]

If you are playing BTS, Gallics require only copper.

This I did not know, but still IW is a tech that does not get much priority in my games. I can usually get it in trade fairly early though. I rarely build swords and lately I've been getting muskets before maces since I skip machinery on my Liberalism beeline more and more, so I would have to upgrade swords to rifles. Dun would be a little useful for muskets I suppose, but I'm not on the defense much.

 

[Atlas]

This I did not know, but still IW is a tech that does not get much priority in my games.

Try an all out sword rush, set research directly to Iron working build a worker and then 2-3 warriors. Keep one warrior in your Cap. use one to explore and use the 3rd to protect your worker as you road to the closest opponent. After 2-3 warriors start a settler to finish timed with IW so you can settle it. Settle it and go all out swords in your two cities.

You will roll up every civ on your landmass.

 

[madscientist]

Try an all out sword rush, set research directly to Iron working build a worker and then 2-3 warriors. Keep one warrior in your Cap. use one to explore and use the 3rd to protect your worker as you road to the closest opponent. After 2-3 warriors start a settler to finish timed with IW so you can settle it. Settle it and go all out swords in your two cities.

You will roll up every civ on your landmass.

Gotta say this works given the right circumstances. A sword rush beats an axe-rush.

 

[Atlas]

Gotta say this works given the right circumstances. A sword rush beats an axe-rush.

Everyday of the week and twice on Sundays

The AI does not build enough Axes to stop it and does not build enough units in general in the early game to stop early aggression

 

[nealhunt]

Don't forget that Guerilla III gives a withdrawal chance, too. With Boudica you can be GIII at 4 XP, with Combat I as well. After that, City Raider promos.

Rush IW and attack a neighbor early. You'll grab their cities and promote a stack of GIII/CI/CRI+ Gallics.

Who needs catapults?

 

[Gnarfflinger]

Have cities with Duns produce archers to defend your hill cities, and cities without Duns build GWs to fight. Also parking your stack on a hill makes them virtually untouchable. The Celts are a good defensive civ, but about even for offense.