Censorship in civ 5

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Blitzscream, Oct 24, 2010.

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  1. CornPlanter

    CornPlanter Emperor

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    It just shows how silly their values are. Razing cities and killing millions of people throughout in-game history is fine. Just having Hitler's face in game is not.
     
  2. Jharii

    Jharii King

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    I think he meant the opposite... how people are so offended that his exclusion is deemed as them somehow being "censored."

    I could be wrong, but the flow of the conversation led me to believe that.
     
  3. Jharii

    Jharii King

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    Yes, please continue to choose to ignore everything presented to you why Hitler/Nazi Germany is excluded from the game.
     
  4. need my speed

    need my speed Rex Omnium Imperarium

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    My point was, that this is not about Germany but about Hitler, because Hitler is completely bad and completely evil.

    d4everman, to be very honest, I, personally, do not see how one could be offended by a peaceful symbol which someone who killed a lot, in other words, was exactly the same as colonizing Spaniards (is that the word?) for example (well, Hitler mainly 'purged' his empire by killing all Jews and Slavs (and probably some more groups), while the Spaniards killed everyone), and destroyed his nation (after creating it (he built much industry, infrastructure, created more jobs, et cetera) used to represent 'evil'. Well, I can understand they do not like him and such, but to censor him... How sad (in my opinion).

    This probably comes out very wrong...
     
  5. Vordeo

    Vordeo King

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    I think the main difference is that Hitler certainly lived in a more 'civilized' time, when mass slaughter is generally not very acceptable to people. To the Spanish conquistadors, that kind of thing was standard operating procedure when claiming new lands: the Nazis were supposed to know better. That, and it's a more recent event.

    Also, he was motivated by flat out racism; the Spaniards were motivated by greed. That doesn't excuse anything, but it's slightly less bad IMO.

    All that said, defending Hitler on the internet is just not a good idea in general. NEver ends well.
     
  6. Jharii

    Jharii King

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    The morality of the issue, as well as the personal opinions and acceptance of his role in history, has nothing to do with the simple fact that it is illegal in Germany. This is the sole reason why it's not included in the game.

    The reasons why it is illegal in Germany is completely irrelevant. It is their laws. It is their choice. Firaxis has simply chosen to adhere to their laws so they can sell Civilization in their country. This is not an issue of morality.
     
  7. need my speed

    need my speed Rex Omnium Imperarium

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    And as such my point has been proven, they did it to make money. And I have, objectively speaking, no issues with that.

    Vordeo, you're of course right (although I do have an issue with the fact that more recent events are much worse than those 50 years ago, I think it's stupid, but on the other hand, it's a bit logical).
     
  8. Jharii

    Jharii King

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    If your point was to prove the most basic of business models, since the dawn of an economy, that a company/business exists to make profit, then yes, high praise to you. It is a point that was already expressed in this thread, though.

    The topic was about viewing this as "censorship," though, and how some people are beating that old nag.
     
  9. Krall

    Krall Warlord

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    I can see your point of view considering Hitler was the leader of a country so he wouldn't be inappropriate as someone you might encounter during a game of Civ. What would you think though if someone made a mod of Civ that was based on holly wars?
     
  10. zonk

    zonk Prince

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    Godwin was codified for a reason :)

    As puzzling as it is, given the wealth of media published and broadcast -- I think a lot of people still tend towards a Marge Schott interpretation of Hitler and the Nazis.

    Stalin probably murdered more people - but he his paranoia knew no ethnic boundaries... He could purge the Red Army one year, see conspirators among "Jewish doctors" later, and see ethnic peasants as the problem the next.

    It was pure land grabbing that largely drove the US massacres of native populations.

    The Mongols were certainly no strangers to the annihilation and complete elimination of the conquered.

    Even the Romans were no strangers were no strangers to wiping out populations from among the conquered.

    Hitler set himself apart by making genocide a central aim, the underpinning of his entire ideology...everything else, "living space", rectifying Versailles, anti-communism - everything else was secondary.

    He's far from the only madmen in human history to harbor such nightmares - but you just won't find many instances throughout history where such people were able to build a regime upon it.
     
  11. Balerune

    Balerune Prince

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    Another of the disadvantages of being linked to "Steam." It was once said somewhere on the forums that modding would in no way be affected with the new mod system. It is clear at least from this example that this is not true. Whether there have/will be other censorships for the sake of the "global" mod server; or perhaps because someone complains loudly enough over some element of whatever for in this universal age we must needs be sensitive to all points of view.;) [And let us keep portraying China in a positive light. Be nice to see another 3 kingdoms if the game every really became playable.]
     
  12. need my speed

    need my speed Rex Omnium Imperarium

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    I was merely stating that those people who posted that this wasn't about money were incorrect. And then I added the part about that I think cencorship (in this and most cases) is stupid.
     
  13. Revoran

    Revoran Prince

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    I disagree completely with this - It is precisely the definition of censorship. Censorship doesn't cease being censorship because it is enacted in law. If anything it makes it more so.

    That being said, I agree Firaxis made the smartest (and really the only) decision by complying with Germany's laws. I was under the impression that depiction of hitler for historical or education purposes was perfectly legal, however playing as Hitler in a world domination game... I can understand how that might be a little more sketchy.

    Censoring Hitler seems petty and a little ridiculous from my Australian point of view but not being German and not having experienced the German cultural context in regards to this I can't really judge them - not on something like this anyway, we're talking about them censoring a videogame mod here guys, not the beginnings of the Fourth Reich. (Yes, yes I get the irony of Germany restricting free speech about Fascism)

    Besides, no one is preventing you from downloading it as a free individual from CivFanatics, even if you're German I doubt you're going to gaol for downloading the mod from here and playing it. How would anyone ever know you had it?
     
  14. Jharii

    Jharii King

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    That, my good man, is called empathy, and I applaud you. It's a far better trait than what most that don't understand and are banging the "censorship" drum have displayed.
     
  15. AlpsStranger

    AlpsStranger Jump jump on the tiger!

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    To those arguing about the nature of the Swastika I would say this. A symbol means what it means to the people that see it. Like it or not the Nazis have succeeded in claiming the symbol, and have probably managed to do so for all time. Clucking about the symbol having another meaning rings hollow when 95% of people probably associate it with the Nazis.

    I'm not saying this to be cruel, merely pointing out that a symbol's original meaning is not somehow inscribed in the symbol itself. If another meaning becomes more strongly glued to the symbol then it, in essence, becomes the symbol's meaning.
     
  16. The_J

    The_J Say No 2 Net Validations Super Moderator Supporter

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    I've posted about it on page 2.

    History, "art" and obvious anti statements, right.

    As far as i know it's the only one...but well...only Greg knows.

    Would indeed be interesting to see.

    I think when we are talking here about censorship, then we mean everything besides what is according to the laws.

    That's completely right.
     
  17. Jharii

    Jharii King

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    You are exactly correct. If you want a direct parallel, it is not at all different than "the N word" in American culture. The original definition is far removed from the connotation and symbolism behind what it means today.
     
  18. budweiser

    budweiser King of the Beers

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    While I have no desirte to play as Hitler, I would much rather play against him than against Bismarck.

    Bismarck is BORING! Give me some Nazis to beat up on.
     
  19. ChaplainDMK

    ChaplainDMK Warlord

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    Its a touchy subject, and knowing some people *cough* Jack Thompson *clear throat* think that people blindly follow what games tell them and games are only murder and rape simulators I think its a sensible move for now...
    I know its dumb, but its not realy their fault, the general public consists mostly of rednecks and football moms...
     
  20. Crezth

    Crezth 話說天下大勢分久必合合久必分

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