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Cereal Mills vs Sid's Sushi

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by tox_von, Feb 17, 2012.

  1. tox_von

    tox_von Chieftain

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    Which is better for getting bigger scores?
     
  2. AJ11

    AJ11 Emperor

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    Generally, Sushi is better because there is usually more seafood than cereals.
     
  3. AutomatedTeller

    AutomatedTeller Frequent poster

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    And sushi is available earlier, too, and seafodd tends to cluster more, so you can often trade for it. It's not uncommon to be unable to trade for extra wheat, since it's not common and doesn't cluster.

    But getting an extra crab is pretty easy, since someone with crab will often have 3 or 4 of them.
     
  4. Zx Zero Zx

    Zx Zero Zx Deity

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    Sushi. You can get it 30 turns earlier, and there are a lot more seafood, and rice than there is grains.
     
  5. ksa76

    ksa76 Chieftain

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    I think that it on many maps will be possible to get higher scores by shifting to Cereal mills. While Sushi will usually yield a couple of extra foods per city compared to Cereal mills (e.g. on the Earth map), the highest archieveable domination scores are paradoxically best archived by minimizing culture. Sushi may yield a lot of unwanted culture spread to tundra, mountain and desert regions while Cereal mills' culture spread is minimal. Therefore, a valid tactic might be to go Sushi first and then replace the Sushi headquarters with Cereal mills by expending an extra Great Merchant. This way, all the sushi affiliates are transformed into Cereal mills affiliates.
     
  6. RD-BH

    RD-BH Human

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    Sushi.
     
  7. AutomatedTeller

    AutomatedTeller Frequent poster

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    I am sure you would have to spread cereal mills. Replacing the sushi headquarters with cereal mills HQ won't transform the other affiliates.
     
  8. Tatran

    Tatran Deity

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    see below...
     
  9. Tatran

    Tatran Deity

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    Cereal Mills requires less resources for 1 :food:, it costs less in maintenance and is less vulnerable from being pillaged.
     
  10. Scoottr

    Scoottr Prince

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    Count your tiles for each type of resource that it consumes and then evaluate how suseptible to pillage are your seafood tiles. I think Cereal Mills gives a culture bonus too which can help in border cities.

    I always struggle with wether or not I should spread a corp to other civs. I'm thinking that even if we go to war, he/she still gets the benefits of my corp.
     
  11. ksa76

    ksa76 Chieftain

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    Regretably, I made a mistake believing than you could replace the Sushi headquarters with Cereal Mills. While I had been able to replace it via the world builder, I later found out that I couldn't establish it by a Great Merchant in the city with Sushi headquarters. In regards to culture spread, Cereal Mills is culture neutral like Mining Inc, while each Sushi affiliate produced 44 culture points. For the perfectionists who want to try to maximize population for high winning scores before reaching the domination threshold, I believe that it might be worth to spread Cereal affiliates in those cities where you want to minimize culture spread. On the Earth map, you could for instance want to limit your culture spread in the Sahara desert and certain parts of Siberia so a to maximize population per available tiles within your borders. I will try this in my next game.
     
  12. strijder20

    strijder20 Wallowing in irony

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    Without the corp's HQ, corps do not exactly give benefits, as the maintenance costs are usually about 12 gold per turn. And if you built your Corp's HQ in your wall street city, then you will get 12 gold per turn for every city you spread it too.
     
  13. MilesBeyond

    MilesBeyond Prince

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    Usually Sid's Sushi, though depending on the map set-up Cereal Mills can be more effective. If you haven't got access to a lot of water tiles and aren't on trading terms with a lot of AI, CM can be much stronger. Or if you're playing something like Boreal, with rice and water in short supply but plenty of wheat.

    K-mod bumps Cereal Mills up to be researchable before Sid's Sushi, which makes it a more competitive option.
     
  14. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    +1.

    Sushi wins on maps like archipelago, garbage & small, and some continents-styled maps (though not all), but in terms of absolute value mills is often better.

    Though sushi has the advantage of being earlier and that's not insignificant.

    On maps like great plains, lots of the tectonics settings, pangaea, etc mills is definitely better.
     
  15. Antilogic

    Antilogic --

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    My calculations for small and standard-sized pangaeas favored Sid's Sushi the majority of the time with regards to food production.

    Never played a Great Plains map, but I'd suspect Cereal Mills would finally win there.
     
  16. strijder20

    strijder20 Wallowing in irony

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    *snip*
     
  17. elohssa

    elohssa Warlord

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    Sushi, mills usually comes too late for me to be significant. It has it's uses on pangea type maps but it's just too late.
     
  18. Antilogic

    Antilogic --

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    I find the clustering of seafood resources, not to mention it also takes rice, means Sid Sushi still outperforms Cereal Mills on a food basis. The only time this isn't true is when you have access to as much wheat and corn as half the sum of seafood resources.

    Maybe I need to play with the coastline setting set on something besides 'Natural', but the math usually doesn't favor Cereal Mills when there are significant bodies of water present, even on Pangaea.
     
  19. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    Those calculations are in question :).

    Mills needs fewer resource trades to get the same :food: value. If you have enough base resources to easily trade for all surplus seafood and/or grains, you probably have enough cities to win without any corporations and the choice between the two is moot (exception: milking score, where sushi is generally better on most maps...but most people AFAIK don't play to delay winning on purpose to chain grow their cities with huge empires just before capping off dom or conquest). If the resources matter, mills gets a very large boost as it's easier to max it.

    But its place on the tech tree still kills it often.
     
  20. Antilogic

    Antilogic --

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    They were from the 3.17 days, I think, and I don't remember if the 3.19 patch changed much here.

    However, I did randomly generate several maps, count the resources, and figure out max potential food generated by each corporation. Sushi tends to win out, because rice counts for both, and even on Pangaea I found that there was at least 50% more seafood tiles than wheat and corn.

    So yes, I am taking into account the different resource trade values.
     

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