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CFC: Fastest STANDARD SETTINGS Peaceful Deity Science Victory

Discussion in 'Civ6 - Hall of Fame Discussion' started by Minou, Dec 8, 2020.

  1. Minou

    Minou Prince

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    Hope it is OK to start a new thread here? I have come to the conclusion that getting fast times in peaceful Science games is much more challenging than war games due to the difficulty in expanding to get enough cities, lack of gold/faith form pillaging, and inability to do things like capture key wonders you miss out on.

    I would propose this thread track games played follow these rules:
    Deity difficulty
    Standard Map Size
    Standard Speed
    All other settings normal (e.g. R&F with no special modes, normal number of AI/City States, etc)

    Player cannot declare war on AI CIvs or City States
    Player can kill units if attacked but cannot pillage or capture Builders/Settlers
    Taking cities by loyalty flipped or capturing free cities is OK
     
    Bleidraner, Casualty of war and ATEX like this.
  2. ATEX

    ATEX Warlord

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    I agree. As long as pillage is as strong as it is today, all the games will just revolve around pillage, so this competition is needed. But you will have to give up continents Minou. There is no room on that template to play peacefull games.
     
  3. Casualty of war

    Casualty of war Prince

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    Canada's time to shine!

    But actually wouldn't this just be Russia Tundra Work Ethic? Russia wants the terrain no one else does.
     
  4. ATEX

    ATEX Warlord

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    I think there are several contenders. Teddy, Babylon and maybe even China after that crazy game was posted here. And maybe others as well. I have some setups with others also I think can be quite fast.
     
  5. Enfant_Sauvage

    Enfant_Sauvage Chieftain

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    I have the feeling that China is pretty much the secret OP civ for SV and CV. I watched the videos and it is really amazing. A fast early game with good city states + 1 extra charges on all the builders + the possibility to accelerate the wonders while putting Magnus in another city to chop settlers makes China perhaps one of the best theoretical civs.

    I'm not going to be greedy here and aim for a T200 sub with Korea, I need to relearn some of the mechanics to speed up space projects.
     
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  6. ATEX

    ATEX Warlord

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    I did not even think of China as a contender before the video. But I think you might have a point. I dont think they are the fastest, but maybe they are underestimated. Some testing is required!
     
    Enfant_Sauvage likes this.
  7. Casualty of war

    Casualty of war Prince

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    Another argument in Peter/Work Ethic's favor is that I've noticed that repaired Holy Sites/Lavras get the Work Ethic bonus back once the repairs are done now.
     
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  8. Casualty of war

    Casualty of war Prince

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    Well, do I try peaceful or not?

    Spoiler :
    upload_2020-12-19_12-40-16.png


    Noooope, not peaceful.

    Spoiler :
    upload_2020-12-19_12-51-54.png


    A strong man might be able to resist a Religious Settlements/2 stolen Settlers game, but I am not that man.
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2020
  9. Enfant_Sauvage

    Enfant_Sauvage Chieftain

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    To me, stealing a settler is ok. Declaring war in order to take cities and/or to pillage improvements and districts is not.
     
  10. Minou

    Minou Prince

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    I think stealing a Settler would disqualify a game from Peaceful, assuming you declared war to do it. I guess if the AI declared on you it is a bit of a grey area. Stealing a Settler already stolen by barbs is kosher - haven't seen one of these is a while, maybe the Ai is escorting better after the latest patches.
     
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  11. Bleidraner

    Bleidraner King

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    Is this open to vainilla games too? Or just Gathering Storm? I’d like to try a peaceful fast Science Victory and by that I mean without pillaging. I have not played in a long long time, really since Civ 5, I played a little vainilla Civ VI, managed to get a t157 peaceful with an awesome start with Kili, but I have played no Gathering Storm at all, so will need some time to get to know the new game. I miss competitive offline single player, so few people posting games or write ups these days. Such a pity.
     
  12. Bleidraner

    Bleidraner King

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    What crazy game? Where can I find or the videos?
     
  13. enKage

    enKage Follower of Zoamelgustar

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    I don't see any reason to make a difference between peaceful and warfare strategies, the onnly thing it does is limiting strategies.

    I see a reason though to reset all threads after final NFP rebalance
     
    Enfant_Sauvage likes this.
  14. Minou

    Minou Prince

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    Post-rebalance we will hopefully have some stability. I have had very little time to play IRL and so have been waiting for the rebalance before investing in a HOF run (I play like 25% of normal speed when I really care about not reloading and going for a record). While I do love the NF pack, it has been kind of frustrating starting a game and having it be "obsolete" before I can even finish due to major changes in things like trade, a new district being added, or edits to city states.
     
  15. Enfant_Sauvage

    Enfant_Sauvage Chieftain

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    That's the reason :)
     
  16. Casualty of war

    Casualty of war Prince

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    Did any of the patches and updates make it so Norway-pillage isn't the strictly fastest way? The change to Earth Goddess certainly took a bit of shine off Bull Moose Teddy, and Nalanda is fixed now.
     
  17. Bleidraner

    Bleidraner King

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    Well I played a game to see what kind of finish time could be achieved. Achieved a completely peaceful science victory on turn 217, when my exoplanet expedition reached a new start system. Played OK, although the game was full of surprises as this was my first play through to the end on the Gathering Storm expansion. I play the New Frontier package, with all expansions activated. Here are the details:
    Pericles
    Deity
    Standard size
    Standard speed
    Pangea

    I cheated a little and chose settings for a wet young world with abundant resources. I wanted plenty of woods/rainforest to chop and plenty of mountains. I rolled a few times to see if I could get a phenomenal start like the ones you see in YouTube with a wonder within a few tiles and so on, but no luck. I settled for a pretty good start where moving just one turn I had one amber, one silk and one ivory within three tiles of city center, and some nice 2/2 tiles that could be worked immediately. On turn 4 or 5 I discovered a culture city state, Mohenho Daro no less, and I knew I had to play that start. Unfortunately the map only had 2 culture (the other one was Ayutthaya, not great) and one science (Hattusa) city state. Such a pity, I think with 2 science city states and one more cultural I could have done sub 200. Maybe.

    No religion of course. This is Deity after all. Scout/scout/settler. Early wonder, just Oracle. Divine Spark pantheon for the great people. I got a relic on t14, that was great. I focused on spamming cities as fast as possible and had 9 cities planted by turn 68 and 11 by t100. At that point I felt that I had a 160-170 win based on what I remembered of vainilla. Ha. That was not to be. They have nerfed a number of key things over the last 3 years (like Big Ben), and of course they have added the exoplanet expedition and at least 10 new civics and techs at the end of the tree which I only discovered as I progressed on my game. They have also added a few more new Great Scientists and Great Engineers, which basically makes it really difficult to get to the ones that help with production of space projects on time to make a difference.

    Wonders, apart from the Oracle, I had a nice Petra, which became one of my spaceport cities, I also got Angkor Wat and Big Ben. It took 100 turns for me to found my first city on the coast, which delayed a couple of key wonders, The Mausoleum at Halicarnassus and Kilwa Kiswani. That last one is just amazing, and I discovered it in this game, must have been introduced in the last 2 years. Anyway, apart of that I only had Ruhr in my Petra city and Broadway, which I build opportunistically.

    I chopped like crazy with Magnus. I build 2 spaceports, one with faith and one hard build. My exoplanet expedition lasted 10 turns. No wars. Everybody friends or allies by t130 or so. Gandhi, Tomyris, Australia, Roosevelt (Bull Moose), Arabia, Gitarja, Gilgamesh, Kongo, Japan, Catherine de Medici (Black Queen), Montezuma. A nice bunch, well behaved in general.

    Mistakes. Well I did not know that I did not need 2 space ports. I could have beelined Rocketry a little bit faster and bought the Spaceport with faith and that would have saved me some turns. Maybe 8-10. In fact my whole end game sucks, I had never played this new end game and well, I need to practice it. I may replay the last 50 turns if I manage to overcome my hatred of minimaxing the 16 cities I ended up with. See if I can hit 200.

    Luck. Well that relic. Also, I had space to build a lot of cities, and Ok cities at that. That is weird in Deity I think where space is at premium. I sweated and was lucky to get Ruhr built before the AI. I could see Arabia was building it at the same time as I, and until the very last turn I did not know whether I was going to get it or not.

    Anyway, fun game. A violent game where you can exploit pillaging would be MUCH faster, but I like the challenge of building a peaceful science victory. I have found no benchmarks on what is a good finish time for peaceful science on Gathering Storm, so I don't know if this is a decent result or not. Which is frustrating, if anybody has any feedback on that, it would be fantastic. Here is a screenshot of the turn when I won.

    T217 Pericles.png
     
  18. Bleidraner

    Bleidraner King

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    Yes played again the last 30 turns and shaved 10 turns, finish 207. Which demonstrates my incompetence. I think a t170 win is possible for one of those super players like civtrader6. For me I can definitely try for t190, but that's my limit.
     
  19. Minou

    Minou Prince

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    Thanks for sharing the write up. I have no idea what good times are anymore because the game changes so rapidly - it takes me weeks to finish a focused game due to having limited time to play, and I keep getting halfway through a game and then its no longer relevant. Just had a sub T100 Nalanda bug game for kicks and of course they removed the bug before I even finished it!

    Your time is good for Peaceful I think. It would probably be really hard to get under T170 now that they (finally) removed the Neighborhood gold trick and you can't just get a quick 5k-10k pile of gold to buy Spaceports. And the previous change with DF being worth way less makes being peaceful less profitable in the early game.

    I am finding violent games are harder too since the AI is way faster to put up walls. I used to regularly role my neighbor on Deity with a levied city state plus 2-3 Archers or rush with Horsemen and now I am seeing walls up at like T50.

    At this stage I am really excited about the re-balance. The new content every month was fun but it was also exhausting having to deal with changes mid-game! It will be nice to have a standard and hopefully mostly bug-free gameset so we can have a stable Hall of Fame. Up till now you couldn't really compare games from even 2-3 months apart with all the changes.
     
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  20. Casualty of war

    Casualty of war Prince

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    The 15 pop minimum change to The Enlightenment cards alone has seriously crimped Science per Turn in the midgame. I have to put conscious effort to work to grow that big anywhere but my cap. And halving Earth Goddess!

    I just did a Science game where I accidentally teched Offworld Missions before Smart Materials! My aching head.
     

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