Chachapoyas

[Pannonius]

The Chachapoyas, also called the Warriors of the Clouds, were an Andean people living in the cloud forests of the Amazonas region of present-day Peru.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chachapoyas_culture
Could they be the descendants of ancient trans-atlantic voyagers?

 

[Yoda Power]

Trans-atlantic? But Peru is on the Pacific side.

 

[aronnax]

The Chachapoyas, also called the Warriors of the Clouds, were an Andean people living in the cloud forests of the Amazonas region of present-day Peru.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chachapoyas_culture
Could they be the descendants of ancient trans-atlantic voyagers?

Why would there be voyages across the seas during the Ancient Period?

 

[Knighterror1013]

"Again, you can't compare the two; Russia was so far behind the rest of Europe, to say nothing of the United States, technologically and industrially, pretty much since forever."

That says it perfectly! It explains the magnificence of Russian leadership. I mean, how much longer has Russia been around then the U.S. Better yet, the nation known as Germany (that didn't show up on the map till the 19th Century). Although, the way you presented what you said was wrong, your arguement is valid from a different perspective.

 

[Shekwan]

Everyone knows the Chachapoyas were descendants of St Brendan who was the first European to discover the Americas.

"Again, you can't compare the two; Russia was so far behind the rest of Europe, to say nothing of the United States, technologically and industrially, pretty much since forever."

That says it perfectly! It explains the magnificence of Russian leadership. I mean, how much longer has Russia been around then the U.S. Better yet, the nation known as Germany (that didn't show up on the map till the 19th Century). Although, the way you presented what you said was wrong, your arguement is valid from a different perspective.

Good point.

 

[Yeekim]

Why would there be voyages across the seas during the Ancient Period?

Why not?
I am not the one to be obsessed about ancient hi-tech empires and all other crazy speculations, but to put a question like that is imho strange. People who lived 30,000-40,000 years ago did not differ from us one bit. They simply knew less, but were exactly as inquisitive/opportunistic. Why wouldn't they want to know if there is anything "on the other side"?

Besides, it is not as crossing the ocean on some ancient vessel wouldn't be possible. Look up the name Thor Heyerdahl, in case you haven't heard of him.

 

[Knighterror1013]

lol, sorry about that... I was reading and posting in a different forum, but somehow it ended up here, I was looking for that post... lmao

 

[Traitorfish]

Could they be the descendants of ancient trans-atlantic voyagers?

What, cos they were a bit paler than their neighbours? Sounds like a weak basis for any sort of theory...

 

[Cutlass]

There's never been any evidence of people from Europe or Africa being the foundation of ancient American civilizations.

 

[North King]

White =/= Caucasian; Mysterious tribe =/= descendants of long lost voyagers.

The sheer weight of evidence that Columbus' voyages was the first lasting contact between Old World and New is so overwhelming that you'd need much, much, much stronger evidence than "whiter skins" to be taken seriously with a Pre-Columbian voyage theory. A population large enough to have its skin color survive all the interbreeding with its neighbors would also be large enough that they'd have brought infectious diseases over, and there's simply no evidence of that happening.

 

[Yeekim]

The sheer weight of evidence that Columbus' voyages was the first lasting contact between Old World and New is so overwhelming that you'd need much, much, much stronger evidence than "whiter skins" to be taken seriously with a Pre-Columbian voyage theory.A population large enough to have its skin color survive all the interbreeding with its neighbors would also be large enough that they'd have brought infectious diseases over, and there's simply no evidence of that happening.

It is pretty much uncontested, that Vikings arrived in New World before Columbus. By the way, what is this evidence you refer to? I can accept that there is very, very little evidence to the contrary, but how can you have evidence that something did NOT happen? The disease argument is good, but alone it is not enough, imho.

 

[North King]

It is pretty much uncontested, that Vikings arrived in New World before Columbus. By the way, what is this evidence you refer to? I can accept that there is very, very little evidence to the contrary, but how can you have evidence that something did NOT happen? The disease argument is good, but alone it is not enough, imho.

It is. Do you know what the Viking "contact" was? It was a couple of dozen men in a winter camp, short on iron, recycling everything; a branch of a dying Greenland colony who already had terrible relations with the natives. They never came close enough to a native to give them a disease.

Because anyone coming over into the Americas would leave linguistic, cultural, political, and epidemiological evidence. The fact that stuff changed when the Europeans actually did arrive in force shows us what should be there in the case of pre-Columbian contact -- and it isn't. Color me crazy for saying so, but absence of evidence is, in this case, evidence of absence.

 

[Huayna Capac357]

They do have some characteristics of the indigenous Canary Island people, but I say no.

Not enough evidence.

 

[TheLastOne36]

It is. Do you know what the Viking "contact" was? It was a couple of dozen men in a winter camp, short on iron, recycling everything; a branch of a dying Greenland colony who already had terrible relations with the natives. They never came close enough to a native to give them a disease.

Because anyone coming over into the Americas would leave linguistic, cultural, political, and epidemiological evidence. The fact that stuff changed when the Europeans actually did arrive in force shows us what should be there in the case of pre-Columbian contact -- and it isn't. Color me crazy for saying so, but absence of evidence is, in this case, evidence of absence.

Umm what about the Skrealings?

Also, the Polynesians have been proved to have visited the Americas somewhere between 800-1300 AD. Other then that, i don't think that anyone else visited the Americas before that. (Excluding the natives of course).

 

[North King]

Umm what about the Skrealings?

Also, the Polynesians have been proved to have visited the Americas somewhere between 800-1300 AD. Other then that, i don't think that anyone else visited the Americas before that. (Excluding the natives of course).

The skraelings were opponents of the Norse. Seriously, there's practically no evidence of even low-level trade.

And no, they have not. Please stop repeating this as gospel; they have not been "proven" to do anything. There's some decent evidence that the Polynesians visited, and we know it was possible; they're also, quite usefully, the only people who could have visited and not spread infectious diseases (Polynesians being themselves susceptible). But this does not constitute proof, and more importantly for the historian, no real lasting changes were introduced by any contact that might have occurred.

 

[Huayna Capac357]

Except for sweet potatoes.

 

[TheLastOne36]

And no, they have not. Please stop repeating this as gospel; they have not been "proven" to do anything. There's some decent evidence that the Polynesians visited, and we know it was possible; they're also, quite usefully, the only people who could have visited and not spread infectious diseases (Polynesians being themselves susceptible). But this does not constitute proof, and more importantly for the historian, no real lasting changes were introduced by any contact that might have occurred.

I didn't say mass colonization by the polynesians, but they have visited atleast ounce. Sweet Potatoes, and Chicken bones and ocean Canoes are evidence of this.

 

[North King]

Not this damn sweet potato argument again. Yes, it is mysterious. Are there other ways of explaining it? Yes. Chicken bones: yeah, and no chickens; also, could be mistaken identification. Canoes: your point? There are shipwrecks off the coast of Brazil of the ancient Mediterranean, but no serious historian suggests this is evidence of contact.

 

[Huayna Capac357]

How do you believe sweet potatoes came to Polynesia? What is the other hypothesis?

 

[North King]

Misdating, misidentification (yams), parallel domestication, any number of things.