Manco Capac
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Rerolling is devil. Mapfinder is God.
Challenge VII-07
- Thread starter Ozbenno
- Start date
Rerolling is devil. Mapfinder is God.
pixiejmcc
Prince
Just discovered it. I am praying to him for a plains hill stone start with four food and a couple of gems. Fresh water would be nice too
And praising him for his sheer awesomeness and for making my life so much easier!(Has anyone seen PH stone on Boreal btw? After many many tries I have only seen stone on plains.)
pixiejmcc
Prince
Epic link is epic. Why would folk enforce OCC on themselves?? The only reason I can think of is that it guarantees national wonders early and reduces maintenance on a map where new cities are probably going to struggle to pay for themselves.
Manco Capac
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Just discovered it. I am praying to him for a plains hill stone start with four food and a couple of gems. Fresh water would be nice too
(Has anyone seen PH stone on Boreal btw? After many many tries I have only seen stone on plains.)
Harness your mapfinder. If chosen, I personally injected a bit of my personal sadism into the next minor gauntlet... Same map type btw...
Believe in mapfinder, have faith...
Good luck.
pixiejmcc
Prince
Ugh.. Boreal maps can be so evil.. Was doing quite well until I found Pacal, whose land is unreachable for my troops as it is protected by a big mountain range and a lake..
Similar thing happened in my attempt. Washington's capital was completely inaccessible. Cut off by water in the corner.
Manco Capac
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Rainforest and boreal can be ridiculous at times given how randomized.
I once started in a corner along a few FP (4) and 2 gold plots, completely blocked by mountains. There was barely enough place to put three cities and go for culture?
It was rainforest.
Once, I saw a Zara stuck to one city on emperor (quick speed) until turn 65. FP had reason over him.
Rainforest again...
pixiejmcc
Prince
@kcd (i'm sure I remember your nick from the civplayers ladder btw!) Thanks so much for your advice. What are your thoughts on the Pyramids in this game? So far I haven't had much luck with strategic resources (which probably meant I should have reloaded sooner) so have had plenty of time to build them. Police state seems a strong option (if you're charismatic you can get away with not using Rep or HR for a little longer).
The option to adjust seas is grayed out for boreal for me.
The option to adjust seas is grayed out for boreal for me.
Manco Capac
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^
Choose sea level with a map that allows it, then swap mapscript to boreal.
It works as weird it could be.
Choose sea level with a map that allows it, then swap mapscript to boreal.
It works as weird it could be.
pixiejmcc
Prince
Hehe. I would have never have thought of trying that.
yes, not very common.
some of us like OCC.
I'm considering doing the entire series this time as OCC. Couple of games will be tough that route.
cas
@kcd (i'm sure I remember your nick from the civplayers ladder btw!) Thanks so much for your advice. What are your thoughts on the Pyramids in this game? So far I haven't had much luck with strategic resources (which probably meant I should have reloaded sooner) so have had plenty of time to build them. Police state seems a strong option (if you're charismatic you can get away with not using Rep or HR for a little longer).
You remember me from the ladder? Wow... that's been a while ago. But if you remembered me well... why the heck would you want advice from me?
I know about the pyramids in this one. You have stone, and maybe are industrial, and they look so cheap. Then there's another wonder that looks cheap, and another, and so on. But even if you resist the temptation on all the other wonders, ideally you want this game all over but the cryiong long before the pyramids would provide a net benefit. So I recommend resisting the temptation there.
But what do I know?
BTW: I found this site while looking for advice on how to be competitive in the ladder, actually. Found out about the single player competitions which suit me much better. Since then I haven't done much mp at all... so you must have a long memory!
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Really interesting challenge game here. Only one I've tried so far, and may be the only one. Not much into some of these challenge setups this round.....well, I am going to try the Industrial game.
I"m never been particularly good at AW games, but this setup makes it actually pretty easy. That is, the Raging Barbs setup does a lot of the work for you. As long as you roll the appropriate start, victory should not be an issue - just when.
I went with Monty this game. My thinking here is that obvious weakness of the Jag would be surpassed by several strengths that match the map. Foremost is speed. On a map that is about 90% forest, you can't go wrong with a 2 move forest units. Second, the innate defense of the Jag proved invaluable, as the units were almost never killed in route to their destination. Many axes died to my Jags or often simply ignored them. Lastly, the ability to get an excellent medic so easily is very beneficial. For one, you can just settle your GG's or create canopeners instead. With Monty though, I'd settle the first GG since you already start with 2 promos - you get WoodyIII or WoodyII/CR1 out the gate. edit: Oh...and I guess I should add that the Jag not requiring a resource is pretty nice as well.
Another very nice thing about WoodyIII is that it is very solid in picking off archers as they move around outside of cities. I would often use stolen workers as bait to draw out archers and then pick them off with my medic. Helps get your medic to WIII/MII quickly, not to mention simply reducing AI defenses.
I think Monty may be the best option here. Mounted units I think would be a really bad idea. However, that doesn't mean my execution could not be much better.
Praets and GWs are strong too. The make up for slowness by being more effective in city attack. That is one thing that is bothersome about the Jag. I lost a lot of favorable battles which was annoying.
However, the key point here, which I used much more effectively in my second attempt, is the Jag is great for opportunistic attacks. You can wait 2 tiles outside a city and allow the barbs to hit the city first, then swoop in. This proved very effective, especially when the axe and swords show up. Overall, Jags allow a more tactical approach with this setup, even though they do indeed have their weakness.
I finished 130AD, but I think with better execution, favorable map layout, and better luck, this game could be finished on the BC side.
I went Masonry first, ofc. It's interesting that I usually finish GW just as the barbs are entering my border. First attempt, a warrior even pillaged a deer tile and attacked the city. Then straight to IW. From there it's TW and then on to Maths, but really doesn't matter at that point. AIs stay backwards for such a long time. Mids and Stonehenge time almost perfectly to finishing IW. I finish Mids first and run a little Rep before switching to Police State.
Most AIs in my games seem to struggle with barbs and rarely get out another city, although at least one AI gets 2 or 3 cities, which is a pain. I haven't had an AI die yet to barbs.
@Neil - I personally love the GW. I'm one of the few who think that they are better than Praets on most maps. I'm surprised you did not use the Guerrilla line of promos on them. It's really quite powerful. G3 rocks but one should not lose site of the fact that G2 can allow faster movement and some tactical options in certain situations.
Although I'm content with my date, I may try this again with good old Boudilicious GWs. Another interesting option is AC Woody Praets. IMP should give much faster GG to settle, which would give all your Praets WoodyII out the gate for faster movement after the slow ones take out a civ or two close by.
Other thoughts:
1) Other than killing one or two barbs initially for some free promos, I tend to try to avoid them, or basically ignore them. Killing them out in the field just slows you down as you have to heal, and these guys are just heading to an AI city anyway to do the work for you. Most of the time, the barbs just ignored my units zipping by them.
2) Police State and chops is awesome here. I did not do that in my first attempt. It made a huge difference....more so that having a larger city due to happiness. Also, I did switch to slavery, but really did not need it.
I"m never been particularly good at AW games, but this setup makes it actually pretty easy. That is, the Raging Barbs setup does a lot of the work for you. As long as you roll the appropriate start, victory should not be an issue - just when.
I went with Monty this game. My thinking here is that obvious weakness of the Jag would be surpassed by several strengths that match the map. Foremost is speed. On a map that is about 90% forest, you can't go wrong with a 2 move forest units. Second, the innate defense of the Jag proved invaluable, as the units were almost never killed in route to their destination. Many axes died to my Jags or often simply ignored them. Lastly, the ability to get an excellent medic so easily is very beneficial. For one, you can just settle your GG's or create canopeners instead. With Monty though, I'd settle the first GG since you already start with 2 promos - you get WoodyIII or WoodyII/CR1 out the gate. edit: Oh...and I guess I should add that the Jag not requiring a resource is pretty nice as well.
Another very nice thing about WoodyIII is that it is very solid in picking off archers as they move around outside of cities. I would often use stolen workers as bait to draw out archers and then pick them off with my medic. Helps get your medic to WIII/MII quickly, not to mention simply reducing AI defenses.
I think Monty may be the best option here. Mounted units I think would be a really bad idea. However, that doesn't mean my execution could not be much better.
Praets and GWs are strong too. The make up for slowness by being more effective in city attack. That is one thing that is bothersome about the Jag. I lost a lot of favorable battles which was annoying.
However, the key point here, which I used much more effectively in my second attempt, is the Jag is great for opportunistic attacks. You can wait 2 tiles outside a city and allow the barbs to hit the city first, then swoop in. This proved very effective, especially when the axe and swords show up. Overall, Jags allow a more tactical approach with this setup, even though they do indeed have their weakness.
I finished 130AD, but I think with better execution, favorable map layout, and better luck, this game could be finished on the BC side.
I went Masonry first, ofc. It's interesting that I usually finish GW just as the barbs are entering my border. First attempt, a warrior even pillaged a deer tile and attacked the city. Then straight to IW. From there it's TW and then on to Maths, but really doesn't matter at that point. AIs stay backwards for such a long time. Mids and Stonehenge time almost perfectly to finishing IW. I finish Mids first and run a little Rep before switching to Police State.
Most AIs in my games seem to struggle with barbs and rarely get out another city, although at least one AI gets 2 or 3 cities, which is a pain. I haven't had an AI die yet to barbs.
@Neil - I personally love the GW. I'm one of the few who think that they are better than Praets on most maps. I'm surprised you did not use the Guerrilla line of promos on them. It's really quite powerful. G3 rocks but one should not lose site of the fact that G2 can allow faster movement and some tactical options in certain situations.
Although I'm content with my date, I may try this again with good old Boudilicious GWs. Another interesting option is AC Woody Praets. IMP should give much faster GG to settle, which would give all your Praets WoodyII out the gate for faster movement after the slow ones take out a civ or two close by.
Other thoughts:
1) Other than killing one or two barbs initially for some free promos, I tend to try to avoid them, or basically ignore them. Killing them out in the field just slows you down as you have to heal, and these guys are just heading to an AI city anyway to do the work for you. Most of the time, the barbs just ignored my units zipping by them.
2) Police State and chops is awesome here. I did not do that in my first attempt. It made a huge difference....more so that having a larger city due to happiness. Also, I did switch to slavery, but really did not need it.
Monty should finish first in this challenge when someone strikes the jackpot with the right combo of map/RNG. I'd guess 300BC-500BC range. I had several attempts with Monty ruined by (a) map layout - turtled civ in a corner with bronze/iron and 5-6 axe or (b) bad RNG luck against archers first 1-2 civs. Monty is the fastest out of the gate, but needs to take out the first two civs with few casualties so a large chunk of your initial jags can be promoted with CR1/cover and be more effective against AI 3 & 4.
Boudica/Gwarriors I gave up because there just aren't enough hills to move fast. I'd rather use Praets with wood2 (after settling the first GG) and promote them to cover or CR1 after they kill barbs or survive their first city attack. Praets have high odds against barb warriors/archers...even attacking into woods.
cas
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Yep, that was my problem with Monty. I had terrible luck with the first couple of civs that decimated my stacks, which really hampers one's momentum. However, on the second attempt, I had a bit more success and ended up with a reasonably promoted stack that could move fast around the map. RNG is definitely a big factor.
Praets will obviously be more successful but slower. I attempted AC 2 or 3 times. However, despite decent stone starts, I never got iron so I lost patience with it.
Not exploring and not meeting AIs really helps with this too I think. Let the barbs do the work on them.
Praets will obviously be more successful but slower. I attempted AC 2 or 3 times. However, despite decent stone starts, I never got iron so I lost patience with it.
Not exploring and not meeting AIs really helps with this too I think. Let the barbs do the work on them.
Yeah, and there is no need to explore, really. Just follow the barbs. They always know where your opponents are.
