Challenge-XV-05

[lymond]

While the general Hall of Fame is an ongoing competition, we are running a series of ten games called the Hall of Fame Challenge Series. Standard Hall of Fame rules (*) still apply, but any games meeting the settings of one of the games will be counted towards the Challenge.

(*) Please read the >> HOF rules << BEFORE playing!
(*) Games must be played using the >> BUFFY MOD 3.19.003 <<
(*) Games to be submitted via the >> Civ IV Hall of Fame Website <<
(*) New players, please >> register << using your CFC forum name​

Settings:

• Victory Condition: Domination (though all victory conditions must be enabled)
• Difficulty: Emperor
• Starting Era: Ancient
• Map Size: Standard
• Speed: Normal
• Map Type: Ice Age
• Required: No City Razing, No Vassal States, No Tribal Villages, No Random Events
• Must Not Be Checked: No Barbarians
• Civ: Spain (Isabella)
• Opponents: Must include America (Washington), Byzantium (Justinian), France (Napoleon), Holy Roman Empire (Charlemange), Khmer (Suryavarman), Persia (Cyrus), Rome (Julius Caesar)
• Version: 3.19.003 or 3.19.003s
• Date: 15th December 2014 to 15th May 2015

Must not play as Inca.
The earliest finish date wins, with score as a tiebreaker.

 

[Pollina]

With the right settings, Ice Age has a fairly good chance to generate a pangaea. Players who don't re-roll until they get one will have a significant disadvantage. Is that intended? Or was this supposed to be a continents map?

 

[lymond]

I realize Ice Age is an unpredictable script, like Fractal, but it is a valid QM HOF map so it will appear in these challenges now and then. It's really up to the player in how they approach it, but that is what HOF is about anyway.

 

[AutomatedTeller]

This is a lot of fun. Surprised there are only 2 entries. I'll have one later in the week, though it won't knock anyone off.

Conquistadors are fun, though a challenge to get to on this map script, which has a lot of plains.

 

[Seraiel]

With the right settings, Ice Age has a fairly good chance to generate a pangaea. Players who don't re-roll until they get one will have a significant disadvantage. Is that intended? Or was this supposed to be a continents map?

I realize Ice Age is an unpredictable script, like Fractal, but it is a valid QM HOF map so it will appear in these challenges now and then. It's really up to the player in how they approach it, but that is what HOF is about anyway.

Afaik Ice Age is very predictable, as one can choose the layout of the land (massive Continent = Pangaea, Small Islands = Archipelagio) . Maybe I also had just luck, played it 2 times lately, once Pangaea-like for early Domination, once with small Islands for Time.

 

[AutomatedTeller]

Afaik Ice Age is very predictable, as one can choose the layout of the land (massive Continent = Pangaea, Small Islands = Archipelagio) . Maybe I also had just luck, played it 2 times lately, once Pangaea-like for early Domination, once with small Islands for Time.

I went with massive continent and found that most of the time, it's all one continent but sometimes it was broken in two (presumably because of high sea levels).

 

[elitetroops]

Conqs are overkill for this. The AI seems to be very slow on this mapscript. Don't think I've ever seen such slow emperor AI. By the time I won, only one had recently researched monarchy, they were all still ages from longbows. And I had been feeding them techs like crazy to fund my expansion... They didn't really build units either, not sure what they were up to.

My plans didn't include the Oracle, but since it wasn't built and only Asoka had PH by 700BC, and I was planning to attack him shortly, I did an attempt on oracling machinery. Unfortunately Asoka completed it one turn before I attacked him, 550 BC. I should have went for Oracle feudalism instead, I think I would have got that in time. Vassalage would have been worth it. Overall my tech path was really stupid. Didn't know at all what I needed or where to go after Currency. Probably best would have been to go feud->Drama (throw in CoL at some point), then nothing else needed. Leaving Asoka alive and demand Theo (which he oracled) for peace might also have been good. My units mainly came from 4 cities, only one of them would have needed a missionary.

My game was not near perfect, I'd say a BC date is easily possible on this kind of map. I could have done a better job scouting the AI early to plan my attack path better. Towards the end I was also really careful, didn't want to screw it up by going in underprepared. Probably could have attacked a couple of turns earlier. Also was late with my settlers that were supposed to break the domination limit. Didn't have time to settle the free space in the tundra.

 

[sampsa]

My plans didn't include the Oracle, but since it wasn't built and only Asoka had PH by 700BC,

You mean that you added extra AIs? Didn't think about that, but I guess it's allowed and probably a good idea.

I know that killing off a civ completely raises the land requirement for domination so optimally leave them with one (probably gifted) city with as few land tiles as possible so I think adding extra AIs lowers the land requirement.

My game was not near perfect, I'd say a BC date is easily possible on this kind of map. I could have done a better job scouting the AI early to plan my attack path better.

I think T125 is not bad at all. The map is quite big anyway so I'm not yet sure how to handle the economy (I mean, not sure if conquest+pillage keeps you afloat). Currently I'm thinking about oracling currency but it might not be necessary. I think going for HAs is obvious and you probably won't need much teching post HBR.

 

[elitetroops]

Yes, I packed the map with max AI. Let's them settle the entire map for you quickly, while keeping them small so they can't make too big stacks. There's also more AI to sell your techs to.

Didn't know that killing an AI raises land requirement for domination... Is that really so?

Not sure about teching. I at least needed CoL, was running a ton of merchants in the end to keep economy alive. In retrospect, whipping courthouses might have been even better. The economic problems started after I've taken out 4 AI and had about 15-20 cities. Got a GP for golden age right about then, which let me easily get through the next 8 turns. After that it was basically -100/turn at 0% slider until the end of the game.

 

[sampsa]

Didn't know that killing an AI raises land requirement for domination... Is that really so?

Yes.

Not sure about teching. I at least needed CoL, was running a ton of merchants in the end to keep economy alive.

I agree, CoL is nice but you can probably live without running merchants (=build wealth).

In retrospect, whipping courthouses might have been even better.

Very hard to believe that yucky courthouses would be optimal. I'd rather turn my pop into units/settlers and/or build wealth. After the final mass settling STRIKE doesn't matter, but it would be useful to be able to pop borders asap (=CoL, music or drama to insta-chop theaters).

A capital with two high -tiles would solve many issues...

The economic problems started after I've taken out 4 AI and had about 15-20 cities. Got a GP for golden age right about then, which let me easily get through the next 8 turns. After that it was basically -100/turn at 0% slider until the end of the game.

Yep, a golden age or two will help a lot.

 

[Seraiel]

Didn't know that killing an AI raises land requirement for domination... Is that really so?

I'm also not so sure about that. I always believed, that setting up a game with min-opponents raises domination land while max-opponents lowers the dom-limit, but in my last game, I killed of 4 of 7 civs and it did nothing to the 60% domination limit which I had from the start.

 

[elitetroops]

I was building wealth. A lot. Where there was no good hammer tiles I preferred merchants. The last part of the game I was also running Rep, allowing the merchants to tech for me. Though much of the late teching was unnecessary. Got music for the artist, planning to culture bomb one of the last cities I've taken to get the land quickly, but I won before he got there.

If you pack the map with max AI, there will be no mass settling at the end. Unless you get a map where you can block off a large chunk of land from the AI. The map will be full as soon as the AI have about 5-6 cities each. I had room for 3 cities to be settled at the end. A barb city popped up on one of the sites and my settlers were too late to get there before domination anyway.

 

[sampsa]

I'm also not so sure about that. I always believed, that setting up a game with min-opponents raises domination land while max-opponents lowers the dom-limit, but in my last game, I killed of 4 of 7 civs and it did nothing to the 60% domination limit which I had from the start.

I have both read it in the forums and experienced it myself that killing off a civ raises dom limit.

I was building wealth. A lot. Where there was no good hammer tiles I preferred merchants. The last part of the game I was also running Rep, allowing the merchants to tech for me. Though much of the late teching was unnecessary. Got music for the artist, planning to culture bomb one of the last cities I've taken to get the land quickly, but I won before he got there.

Yeh I thought about rep too, but you don't really need those . Maybe merchants do have their use, but getting CoL is not mandatory.

If you pack the map with max AI, there will be no mass settling at the end.

Ah, yes. It's unclear if this is to your benefit or not as you have to wait for them cities to come out of revolt. That music artist offers interesting possibilities though.

I had room for 3 cities to be settled at the end. A barb city popped up on one of the sites and my settlers were too late to get there before domination anyway.

Sounds like max number of AIs is the way to go! In my first attempt I still have only 3 cities @900BC ready to start the HA-war... Looks like without extra this is just way too slow. Need to look for ways to go for war faster than this.

 

[Seraiel]

I have both read it in the forums and experienced it myself that killing off a civ raises dom limit.

Do you wanna test or shall I?

 

[elitetroops]

Do you wanna test or shall I?

That's easy to test. In my 4000BC save 56% of land area is required for domination. In the 250AD save (5 AI dead) 56% of land area is required for domination. Killing AI does not raise the domination limit.

In my first attempt I still have only 3 cities @900BC ready to start the HA-war... Looks like without extra this is just way too slow. Need to look for ways to go for war faster than this.

I started HA war 1320BC and I thought it was a bit late. Capital had one gold mine and 2nd city had a tundra silver.

 

[sampsa]

You are right. Strange, for some reason I was under the illusion that both pop and land requirements change, but it seems that for example on standard size with 6 AI, land req is always 64%. Pop requirement varies, but that is not very important.

This is good news, no need to keep them alive.

 

[Noble Zarkon]

Land % is fixed at the beginning of the game as elite has demonstrated, population is 25% more than the 2nd placed Civ IIRC.

 

[sampsa]

population is 25% more than the 2nd placed Civ IIRC.

Ah, thanks!

With 10 AI the land req is 56% which seems to mean roughly 560 tiles (at least in the map I am currently playing).

I think I'm starting to understand how this should be played...

Spoiler :

Worker steals. As many as you can get from as many civs as possible. Justinian (and for example Gandhi and Fred) are prime targets as they will trade techs when annoyed. Emp AI doesn't start with a worker, but if they start building one it comes out ~T11.

In my current game I never built one myself, started with 4x warrior, settler. Managed to steal from 4 AI which weakens them a lot.

T50:

Spoiler :

I now think that HAs are "overkill" and chariots will do, for starters at least. is rarely the bottleneck as there is plenty of forest on this mapscript.

Too bad that on this map it's not one big landmass, but two continents. Not sure if our conti is enough for 56%. Also self-built Stonehenge which is definitely not optimal.

 

[elitetroops]

1000 land tiles seem like a lot. My map had about 830. Are you playing with high sea level?

Also self-built Stonehenge which is definitely not optimal.

I did the same... There just isn't very much useful things to build before the rush starts.

I also did a couple of tries with chariot rushes. It can work pretty well. In the game I submitted Charlie was the natural first target, so I had to go straight for HAs.

 

[sampsa]

1000 land tiles seem like a lot. My map had about 830. Are you playing with high sea level?

Nope, with medium. The few high sea level maps I generated had usually two continents, but might be just a coincidence.

I did the same... There just isn't very much useful things to build before the rush starts.

Yeah, I think this is why it's best to get horse connected asap and start putting to chariots. Having Charlie as first target makes it very difficult though, esp on a hill.

Started a fresh game because getting enough land would have required maximal effort. Again, horse in 2nd city and have stolen 5 workers on T41.