[GS] Change on Mali UU

[Lily_Lancer]

Anyone notice that Mali UU changes from first look to live stream.

Previously:
190 Prod, 49 strength, require horses

Now:
220 Prod, 49 strength, require iron


So does it mean that knights still use iron instead of horses?

Can't imagine knights riding on iron-made horses instead of real horses.

 

[VermelhoRed]

They should use both resources tbh

 

[Victoria]

Can't imagine knights riding on iron-made horses instead of real horses.

Maybe the use the iron to flatten the camels humps until they become horses?

... or perhaps there is more iron in the desert than horses?

knights should use both as they are a bit OP... saying that, now infantry get +1 movement, with a GG and logistics they are 5 MP... so 5 MP muskets are pretty scary.

 

[Trav'ling Canuck]

knights should use both as they are a bit OP... saying that, now infantry get +1 movement, with a GG and logistics they are 5 MP... so 5 MP muskets are pretty scary.

Everybody had muskets (fusiliers). Not everybody had knights. Knights, in my opinion, should be hard to get, but very useful. And obsolete when you can hand a group of untrained serfs a metal tube that blasts the horse out from underneath the Knight.

 

[Victoria]

Everybody had muskets (fusiliers).

... but not everybody was a Fusilier (Flintlock)

Metal tubes? I just thought it was raining

The reality was knight Armour was made for the wearer... Knights were very expensive ... not 3 GPT.

 

[Sostratus]

I find it an indication that they be balancing unit production costs so that knights aren't one of the cheapest medieval units!
Because certainly they need to flesh out why horse/coursers/cav is more compelling than knight/cuir which are basically... better units using previously the same resources.

 

[JimGrumpypants]

I suspect it is a bit of a concession for Mali - since they are more likely to have access to iron rather than horses.
Since they are going to have UU's require resources, they may be trying to stretch it to still be a bit easier, based on start bias.

 

[Sostratus]

Since they are going to have UU's require resources, they may be trying to stretch it to still be a bit easier, based on start bias.

They've shown the card Equestrian Orders a few times in the streams- it basically gives +1 horse and iron to each deposit. Now, since the middle ages will have coursers and knights, why include iron in that card at all? Unless knights really do require iron and we only saw an early build where they were playing with it.

 

[Lily_Lancer]

Maybe the use the iron to flatten the camels humps until they become horses?

... or perhaps there is more iron in the desert than horses?

knights should use both as they are a bit OP... saying that, now infantry get +1 movement, with a GG and logistics they are 5 MP... so 5 MP muskets are pretty scary.

Infantry get +1 movement? How?

 

[Inhalaattori]

They should make so that knights use both iron and horses, but only half amount of each resource. We could even have units that use 3 resources, but they would only need 1/3 amount of each resource.

 

[Sostratus]

Infantry get +1 movement? How?

I believe she is referring to the Commando promotion giving melee units +1 movement. I mean, it's new in R&F, it's not new in the sense that it happened almost a year ago.

Edit: @Victoria I realize I keep referring to you as she. Perhaps the royal we would be a better choice for our resident Regina, defender of the faith and head of the commonwealth...

 

[Lord Lakely]

Sounds like a balance change to me. It's easier to find iron in the desert than horses.

 

[Victoria]

Infantry get +1 movement? How?

Yes, The other day I was sword rushing and went commando on the swords and pushed to knights to find a lack of gold so pushed on to musketry. It mainly worked well because of Kabul. It was a much stronger earlier push but then is weaker than knights until you get to muskets. You also use your slots up as an Oligarch which is not good so probably weaker over all but if you had half foot half knights it may have better mileage. I’ll try that some time.

 

[Lily_Lancer]

Yes, The other day I was sword rushing and went commando on the swords and pushed to knights to find a lack of gold so pushed on to musketry. It mainly worked well because of Kabul. It was a much stronger earlier push but then is weaker than knights until you get to muskets. You also use your slots up as an Oligarch which is not good so probably weaker over all but if you had half foot half knights it may have better mileage. I’ll try that some time.

Are you referring to the 2nd level promotion, or the base movement?

That 2nd promotion makes them better, but still not as good as knights. Knights gain +7 vs cities in 2nd promotion.

 

[Takfloyd]

Civ IV had units that required two strategic resources, and even offered alternatives between different ones (Such as modern ships running off either oil or uranium). Civ III had a unit that required 3 resources.

Strategic resources, like many other things, have gotten more and more "gamified" and detached from reality in Civ V and VI. Firaxis should take this opportunity to re-introduce more complex resource requirements.

 

[Lord Lakely]

Or alternatively, change the impact of strategic resources on the unit that requires them. An Iron sword will always beat a copper sword, so give a combat strength boost to empires that have it available to give them advantage vs non-Iron empires.

This can be used for any unit type if you break down what a specific unit type requires to be made: Cavalry still require a mount, Artillery cannot shoot without gunpowder and Tanks cannot run without fuel, but you could offer different alternatives for mounts (elephants, chariots and camels), gunpowder (nitre, sulphur, and other explosives) or fuel (oil, coal, "green fuel") and give different advantages to which strategic resource you build your units with (example: elephant cavalry get a bonus vs infantry but a malus vs artillery and archers, camel cavalry get a bonus vs other cavalry but are worse vs cities, etc)

 

[Victoria]

Are you referring to the 2nd level promotion, or the base movement?
That 2nd promotion makes them better, but still not as good as knights. Knights gain +7 vs cities in 2nd promotion.

YesI said they are not as good as knights but they are strong earlier, their 3rd promo (urban warfare) catches up that +7 and at Muskets they are 55+4+4+7+5 = 75 while knights are 48+7+5=60 so 15 better. The MP difference is there and the slot usage but that +15 makes them hardly need to heal.
Knights are simpler and easier to get, as I said you really need Kabul and pushing to muskets is extra science where you do not want to go sometimes, but it is different.

 

[bite]

one of the reasons I do add this stuff to the features thread, because they are always getting changed as the game gets balanced