1. We have added the ability to collapse/expand forum categories and widgets on forum home.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Photobucket has changed its policy concerning hotlinking images and now requires an account with a $399.00 annual fee to allow hotlink. More information is available at: this link.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. All Civ avatars are brought back and available for selection in the Avatar Gallery! There are 945 avatars total.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. To make the site more secure, we have installed SSL certificates and enabled HTTPS for both the main site and forums.
    Dismiss Notice
  5. Civ6 is released! Order now! (Amazon US | Amazon UK | Amazon CA | Amazon DE | Amazon FR)
    Dismiss Notice
  6. Dismiss Notice
  7. Forum account upgrades are available for ad-free browsing.
    Dismiss Notice

Changes to some annoying name errors, plus Canada civ

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Completed Modpacks' started by Wyz_sub10, Dec 19, 2001.

  1. Wyz_sub10

    Wyz_sub10 CIV Gold - Project Lead

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2001
    Messages:
    2,424
    Hi all. This is more of an edit than a mod.

    To begin with, I made a pile of changes surrounding cities, leader names and tribes. Unfortunately, I didn't detail everything in a readme file, so let me highlight some changes.

    Iroquois - all cities changed

    The city name list was bogus. I thought it would be more appropriate to list cities as the tribes that comprise the Iroquis Confederacy. Of course there were only about 8 tribe names to use (i.e. Mohawk, Huron, Tobacco), so I expanded the list to include tribes from across North America. This is consistent, I think, with what Firaxis said they were doing with this Civ. The first 8 names are Iroquois tribes. The others are various regional nations (Blackfoot, Sioux, Cree, Pueblo, Navajo, etc.)

    The Barbarian tribes have been changed accordingly.

    Zulus - cities added, leaders added

    Cetshwayo was listed under two different names. He has been moved to the first leader. I have added others from Zulu history.

    Ondini is now the capital city (as it should be). This list was expanded drastically, as they are an *expansionist* civ, after all. The inclusion of Johannesberg, Benoni and Botshabelo give it some modern "feel".

    Rome - leader changes

    Maximus, a real but insignificant figure (used, I'm sure, due to Gladiator) has been replaced with Aurelius, also from Gladiator, but real and highly significant to Roman history.

    Germany - cities added, leaders added

    The cities list needed to be way longer, so here it is. It includes, BTW, a few Austrian cities (intentionally). I've added Rommel and Hitler to the leader list. Hitler is no doubt one of the most hated men in history, but if *that* were the criteria, we'd have short lists all around. There are some real butchers on these leader lists.

    Russia - leader added

    Donskoi, a defeater of the Mongols is included.

    Japan - cities added, changed, leaders added

    Tokyo and Edo are the same city. I kept the Tokyo name. I think Nagoya was the first capital under Tokugawa. I could be wrong. In any case, Kyoto remains here. Daigo, Sanjo and Takauij have been added as leaders.

    France - added cities

    Added a ton of cities to France.

    New Civ - Canada replaces Persia.

    Poor Persia. They're always the first to go in these mods, it seems.

    Canada is industrious and scientific. (I was going to go Commercial, but kept industrious to maintain balance with Persia gone).

    Prime Minister Trudeau is the leader and the unique unit is the Voyageur - an explorer unit with a 1 att and 1 def. Very, very good unit for exploring the map early on. Leaders include Gen. Isaac Brock and Billy Bishop, etc.

    Full Civilopedia entries for Canada and the Voyageurs, but I could not get the pictures for these (or Trudeau) to work properly. I have included them here in any case.

    I could fit the Voyageur in to the zip due to size. So to get that unit for Canada, make a copy of the Settler folder in Art/Units. Rename it Voyageur, and rename the settler.ini file within it to Voyageur.ini

    Okay, let me know if you have any comments.

    BTW...what does everyone think about adding scientists and artists to great leaders? It makes sense especially in light of finishing wonders.

    UPDATED FILE:

    I think I left the civilopedia entries out of the first one. This should have them.
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Tranced

    Tranced Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2001
    Messages:
    11
    no offense to any canadian citizens out there, but why would canada be scientific? their nation as a whole has created very little as far as technology is concerned. the industrial part is also wrong, considering you dont read a lot of stuff that says: "Made In Canada" ;)
     
  3. dannyevilcat

    dannyevilcat DESTROYER OF FURNITURE

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2001
    Messages:
    1,714
    Location:
    Burnaby B.C.
    Uh, oh... Do I sense another one of those U.S. vs. Canada debates? Hope not. Canada does contribute to science. What other attributes are fitting? Personally, I think Expansionist/scientific is more fitting (look at Canada's size).

    Like the changes, I'll be sure to use many is my own personal mod. Thanks.
     
  4. Wyz_sub10

    Wyz_sub10 CIV Gold - Project Lead

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2001
    Messages:
    2,424
    Tancred,

    I'm not going to wave any flags here, but scientific makes sense.

    You need to pick two. I already stated why I went with Industrious over Commercial. Expansionist seems like a valid choice due to size, but Canada isn't "expansionist" in the same vein as it applies to Civ3.

    Back to scientific...

    Canadians have contributed their fair share of Nobel prize winners and breakthroughs - insulin and microwave communication technology are probably the best known two. But there have been plenty of contributions, mostly to chemistry and biology (relatively little to physics).

    I wont harp on about tech stuff. You can do a little research starting with fiber optics and per capita LAN connections if you're *really* interested. :)

    cheers.

    sorry....almost forgot about industrious.

    Because it's a big country with a small population and a rugged climate, you'd be surprised at how the infrastructure has had to adapt to meet needs. While the Trans-Canadian railroad is well known, few people know what an amazing engineering feat was accomplished when the Confederation Bridge was completed, or how much work was required to develop and maintain the massive hydro-electric network that supplies huge amounts of electricity to New York and Pennsylvania.

    Not flag waving, just explaining my choices.
     
  5. Qelebex

    Qelebex Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2001
    Messages:
    55
    neither America nor Canada are realistic civs for this game. It is silly to start as the Canadians(?!!) at 4000BC. Canadians found wheel, writing,... bah! Same for Americans. They should have random faces in the population screen... :D
     
  6. dannyevilcat

    dannyevilcat DESTROYER OF FURNITURE

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2001
    Messages:
    1,714
    Location:
    Burnaby B.C.
    What's wrong with playing as your own country? Who made you so snobby that you need to snub a Canada mod? Of course we don't belong up there with China or England in terms of a civilization. Hell, we aren't even a civ, we're just a country. So what?
     
  7. EL OSO

    EL OSO Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2001
    Messages:
    2
    Location:
    chicagoland area
    Is there any way to install this mod without overwriting the Persia civ with the Canada civ?
     
  8. Wyz_sub10

    Wyz_sub10 CIV Gold - Project Lead

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2001
    Messages:
    2,424
    If you want to scrap Canada to return to Persia, simply use the editor to rename to Persia, change the Civ-specific unit, and change the "build" and "government" preferences.

    The Persia animations and Civilopedia entries are still there. You just need to rename the country and the pedia entry and Persia will be there again.
     
  9. Wyz_sub10

    Wyz_sub10 CIV Gold - Project Lead

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2001
    Messages:
    2,424
    Qelebex,

    It's equally silly to start with Germany, England, Greece and almost every other civ in 4000 BC! Or have the Romans still kicking around in 2000 AD.

    Even Egypt and China weren't "civs" in 4000 BC.

    As cool as it would be to start with Jomon and Indus cultures, and have them "transmute" into Japan and India, that would require a lot of programming for what is essentially a cosmetic change.
     
  10. FrosTi

    FrosTi Indépendantiste Québécois

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2001
    Messages:
    155
    Location:
    Montréal, Québec
    Canada is not a civ it's a colony...
     
  11. Wyz_sub10

    Wyz_sub10 CIV Gold - Project Lead

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2001
    Messages:
    2,424
    blah blah blah

    Et le Québec, c'est quoi d'abord? Continuez de rêver de la souveraineté.

    Joyeux Nöel, petit Levesque.
    :lol:
     
  12. ajohn505

    ajohn505 Mr. Fahrenheit

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2001
    Messages:
    64
    Location:
    Midwest, USA
    Ooh... I love it when you talk in French.

    I love America, being American and all, but Canada rocks as well. Their responsible socialist capitalism (not quite Europe, not quite American) is what we're going to move to when we start to realize we're almost out of resources.

    I'm torn though, because I have this 'Strange Brew' image in my head of the Canadian lower middle class.
     
  13. Wolfshanze

    Wolfshanze CFC Historian

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2001
    Messages:
    5,689
    Location:
    Florida
    Let's see what Canada is famous for:

    Loverboy
    Bob and Doug McKenzie
    Celine Deon
    Moose (what is the plural term for a moose?)

    Hmmm...

    Does that a Civ make?

    You be the judge!

    Special Unit: The Mountie?

    P.S.
    Egypt WAS a Civ in 4000BC, and the Iroquois are usually the first Civ to go in a mod, not Persia, simply because the Iroquois aren't a Civ at all, unless you consider thatch huts on the same scale as the Sistene Chapel or Forbiden Palace.
     
  14. Canadria

    Canadria Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2001
    Messages:
    9
    Location:
    Windsor, Ontario, Canada
    This is not a flame at you, but that comment is one of the most racists things I have ever heard.

    It is common for European or European descendents to act like this. The Natives here had alot of art and culture. They didn't put the same kind of value on huge buildings and flashy art.

    Alot of tribes didn't even believe in the kinds of technology that allowed the kind of building that you are talking about.

    I'm not saying that they were the most advanced or the most viable civ, but you shouldn't dismiss them simply because they don't fall into your view of what a western civ is.

    -Devon

    PS: Please note again, I am not attempting to flame and if I come out sounding harsh it's because I know several native people and know alot about their beliefs and they have been getting trashed for hundreds of years.
     
  15. Canadria

    Canadria Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2001
    Messages:
    9
    Location:
    Windsor, Ontario, Canada
    You forgot a few

    vehicle air conditioners
    CPR dummies
    AC radio tubes
    The Canadarm
    Electric hand prosthesis
    electron microscope
    explosives vapour detector
    green garbage bags
    ginger ale
    the goalie mask
    first heart valve operation
    ship based helicopter landing systems
    IMAX
    Insulin
    basketball
    kerosene
    lacrosse
    lightbulbs
    tracer bullets
    pablum
    the pacemaker
    the paint roller
    rollerskates
    snow blower
    snow mobile
    time zones
    telephone
    the washing machine
    the zipper
    acetylene
    the automatic machinery lubricator
    automatic postal sorter
    Bone Marrow Compatibility Test
    Electric Car Heater
    Electric Streetcar
    Film Colourization
    Gramophone
    Odometer
    Plexiglas
    Radio-Transmitted Voice
    Screw Propeller
    Tone-to-Pulse Converter
    Undersea Telegraph Cable
    UV-degradable Plastics
    Variable Pitch Aircraft Propeller
    Wireless Radio

    This is just a partial list
     
  16. Wolfshanze

    Wolfshanze CFC Historian

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2001
    Messages:
    5,689
    Location:
    Florida
    Not at all... I was being rather tongue-in-cheek anyways...

    As for the Iroquois, everyone is entitled to an opinion, and I wasn't being "pro-western", if you read my entire quote, I mentioned one "western" item, and one VERY eastern item, the Forbiden Palace.

    Simply put, when you have a game like Civ3 that talks about "stand the test of time" and when one thinks of great Civilizations, Iroquois, in anywhere in the world outside of a native american indian reserve is probably not topping anyone's list as a great civilization.

    Considering the fact that "real" civilizations were put to the axe to try and FORCE a Civ in the game that really is just odd (the Iroquois) to simply be "politically correct" in covering all the bases... the simple fact of the matter is that there were no North American "civilizations"... tribes yes, but this is Civilization, not "Tribes".

    Europe and Asia spawned some of the greatest Civilizations, and to another extent, Africa, Central and South America as well (Zulus, Egypt, Aztecs, Incas, Mayans, Toltecs, etc). Nothing really happened in North America as far as CIVILIZATION building until the Europeans arrived.

    I'm not being racist, I'm being factual. Sorry if the North American Indians didn't build anything past tribal stage and thatched huts, and I'm not putting down anyone, I'm just stating the obvious. Did they have traditions and were a nice group of people... yes... did they build Civilizations that stand the test of time (like what has been the motto of the game series)... NO.

    They include the Iroquois, but leave out the Mayans, the Incans, the Toltecs, a ton of Asian civs (Koreans, Mongols, Polynesians), and even several major European ones (Spain for one).

    Sorry, but the Iroquois look more like more of Sid's sickening political correctness than actual common sense.
     
  17. Risbinroch

    Risbinroch Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2001
    Messages:
    547
    Location:
    Skien, Norway
    I have to agree here, why couldent they just included more civs to choose from even though you still couldent choose more than 16...

    I also have to agree, without reading the post (is it even here) that it's not racist to say that the Iroques hasn't had a "great civilization". Because that is the fact compared to a lot of civs not in the game.

    I believe the natives of northern america should more correctly be replaced with the "barbarians" but only if it was correct and they also could build things etc. In such way that there were different tribes around all of northern america and even the world. Colonization did this quite well, allthough not good enough, as you werent able to control any of the tribes.

    I also believe (I'm european and not american so I might not know all that much of american history) that there was an realy ancient civ called the moundbuilders in the midwest, before all the tribes. Was it more of a civilization that all the Apaches, Kiowas, Sioux etc.? An american would propably know better than I do.

    Some great civilizations is missing in the game. Allthough I see the purpose of every continent being included, except for South America and Oceania... A lot of civilizations should have been included before the Iroquis, two of them american: Maya and Inca. But I think Firaxis should release a pack with 16 new civs wich didn't replace any of the old ones. If for instance playing only in an america map it would be great having, Inca, Maya, Iroquies and the Aztecs.

    But the worst part about this is that it is too hard to add new civs without crashing the game... I would personally loved to have a loooong list of civs to chose from, so I could pick 16 different civs each time.

    So it's not that bad that someone creates Canada, allthough I believe Persian civilization to be much more important througout history...

    And it's great that you have added a lot of cities, I have done that too, cause originally in the game the civs had very few, a realy easy thing to do, so why didn't they include more city names?

    Civs that should have been added in my opionion: Spain, Portugal, Inca, Mayan, Dutch, Viking, Carthagenes

    Others that could have been included: More modern states...

    What I believe should be in the game was uprising and cities declaring indepencene. That way "new civilizations" could be born. It could even be so that some civilizations split up and became different countries or even that the civ just changes name, like Rome becoming Italy after a while.
     
  18. Tarquelne

    Tarquelne Follower of Tytalus

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2001
    Messages:
    3,714
    Foolish to call Wolfshanze a racist. Sounds like he's more of a narrowminded cultural imperialist, actually, if we want to throw around buzzwords. I prefer "jerk", as it pretty much gets the point across without making any grandiose ideological claims.

    Big buildings = civilization? Ha! That's almost exactly as bad as "White linen clothing = civilization" or "monotheism = civilization" or "centralized leadership = civilization"

    Its fine to say that the Iraquois, to chose a group at random, had poor architechural achievements compared to other civilizations, but it's foolish to deny they had one.

    Civilization, for all you poorly educated technological savages out there, is simply a relatively high level of cultural and technological cohesion and sophistcation. It's usually associated with writing and written records.... but that's more for practical reasons than ones of principle - It's difficult to track cultural cohesion without written records. You get any group of people who have a continuous and independent cultural identity for more than a few generations and you've got a civilization. Seem like an overly inclusive definetion? Tough. "Civilization" is most definetly NOT a scholarly term for "They built frik'in huge stone buildings."


    Look, Wolfzie - Civ is a game of "what if", if you really want to try to pretend its an historical simulation. If we're playing "What if the Germans got organized as a culture back in 4000 BC and ended up ruling the world.... why not the Iraquios, or, more to the point _some_ north american people? I'd rather ditch America (the least-ancient of the "civs" in Civ3) and put in, oh, say, the Incas. That'd give us 3 "what if they ended up ruling the world" possibilities for the western hemisphere.

    As far as standing the test of time.... they we should ditch.... well, every civ but China and India, and maybe Japan, Germany and Greece. All the other civs are either too young or well, didn't pass the test.
     
  19. Judge Dredd

    Judge Dredd Republicrat

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2001
    Messages:
    175
    Location:
    Greenfield, WI
    Meese? Moosi? Mooseys? I think it is just Moose, though.
     
  20. Wyz_sub10

    Wyz_sub10 CIV Gold - Project Lead

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2001
    Messages:
    2,424
    Okay, but the Canada civ aside, I still made a lot of other changes, after all. Any thoughts on those???

    BTW Wolfshanz, Egypt was not a civ in 4,000 BC in the snes we are discussing here.

    There was a Pharoanic culture in 4000 BC, but not the same "civ" as Cleopatra's Egypt.

    The point I was making is that *no* civ has been continuous since 4000 BC, so it's no fair to say that America is less "worthy" of inclusion because of their late rise.
     

Share This Page