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Chapel Hill shooting: Terrorism? Hell no! he was a "lone wolf"

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by ArguCa, Feb 11, 2015.

  1. downtown

    downtown Crafternoon Delight

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    It's weird...I feel like I've heard quite a bit about this story. My company wrote an article about it, I saw multiple people talking about it on Facebook and Twitter...maybe it hadn't hit the Networks yet?

    Also, I had also read that the police believe the killings weren't religiously motivated.
     
  2. EgonSpengler

    EgonSpengler Doctor of Funk

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    I don't know about the television broadcast, but CNN's website has it on their front page in giant, bold-faced type, with a photo of the victims. Stevie Wonder wouldn't be able to miss it.
     
  3. ArguCa

    ArguCa Prince

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    @Egon

    Now think this; A Muslim killed 3 white in America and imagine same media. If you believe that media's reaction would be same, I have no words.
     
  4. Gori the Grey

    Gori the Grey The Poster

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    ArguCa, how could CNN make it a bigger story than to have it on their front page in giant boldface type?

    This tragedy seems to be drawing exactly the media coverage you think it warrants.
     
  5. Cheetah

    Cheetah Deity

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    I'll bite.

    The attack on Charlie Hebdo was a terrorist attack in that it tries to scare people so they will not make fun of Mohammed or Islam.

    And I'm afraid it is working. Which makes me really quite upset.

    People who terrorise are terrorists, by definition. But tell me: Are you (I'm assuming you're Muslim) or anyone you know, actually scared by this? Or are you upset, angry and offended that such an incident could happen? The latter goes for me too, but I can find no sign of the former in neither me nor you. If people aren't terrorised, this wasn't a terrorist attack.

    American soldiers in Iraq were soldiers in a war zone. While in theory, they were supposed to be fighting for democracy, in practice, the end result was a sectarian region with no liberal democracy as we in the West knows it.

    Now, soldiers in war can of course commit acts of terrorism. Examples include the sacking of Carthage, the fire bombing of Dresden, the nuking of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the rape of Nanjing, and countless others. The French Reign of Terror is even the origin of the term terrorism. Sometimes it is strategically decided and carried out by orders from higher ups, and other times it is more impulsive, happening on the whim of the individual soldiers.

    Whether or not American troops committed terrorism in Iraq is a huge topic. The torture in Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo et al. was commanded by the US Government, and can to some extent be classified as terrorism. Since it happened with incarcerated victims however, it isn't quite what people think of when discussing terrorism. A more relevant example it seems, could be the use of white phosphorous during e.g. the fighting over Fallujah.

    However, unless one counts the incompetence and indifference sometimes shown by US troops, none of the examples I can think of suggest an actual campaign of terrorism in Iraq. The Americans are quite fond of using the term 'collateral damage', but barring a few incidents of individual troops, there's not been any terrorism committed in Iraq by US forces.

    Of course, living in a war zone is severely frightening, so in that case, one could argue that the Americans brought terror to Iraq. But that still isn't quite what most people think of when talking of terrorism.
     
  6. ArguCa

    ArguCa Prince

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    No need to make it bigger. They just have to react equal. No matter victims Muslims, Christians, Jews or any other religious, ethnic peoples. Otherwise they look funny. But more funny and kinda painful part is some people believing media's lies.
     
  7. Gori the Grey

    Gori the Grey The Poster

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    I'm saying "as big as they can make it" is automatically "as big as it would be if it were a Muslim killing three non-Muslims" It is equal.
     
  8. ArguCa

    ArguCa Prince

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    If I were living US I would worry about people I loved. And this means yes, they terrorized many Muslims in the west.

    Worst part is a Muslim don't have to provoke others, Being Muslim is enough to be in danger. While "True Terrorists" don't attack unless you insult their faith.
     
  9. Cheetah

    Cheetah Deity

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    Alright, that's a point I can work from. :)

    What makes you worry though? The guy has been arrested, so are you afraid that others will take his place? If so, why?
     
  10. NetGear

    NetGear King

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    I wouldn't call it terrorism but definitely a hate crime. I'm sure if it was white people that he had parking issues with he wouldn't have gone that far.
     
  11. ArguCa

    ArguCa Prince

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    We already know that there are numberless extremist in western society. Difference between Muslim and Christian extremists is, Muslims are not as patient as Christian/White/Westerner extremists.

    I always worry about Muslims in non-Muslim countries. You know there was a Norwegian guy bombed people because he was hating Muslims (Funny, after that attack many Norwegians converted to Islam)

    Those are terrorizing people. No matter what fox news says or cnn says, people are terrorizing and living in fear. Travel to an Islamic country and see how Christians living in there. After witnessing hypocrisy of western media and worst, hypocrisy of westerners who tries to justify that terrorist attack makes me sick.
     
  12. ArguCa

    ArguCa Prince

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    Justifying like this. parking issues 1 bullet each of them in the HEAD. What a parking issue!
     
  13. ArguCa

    ArguCa Prince

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  14. NetGear

    NetGear King

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    How the hell was I justifying what he did? O_o
     
  15. Cheetah

    Cheetah Deity

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    Why, yes, yes I do know about that Norwegian guy...

    He also had a hatred for communists, socialists and everyone who didn't support his right-wing, Christian fundamentalistic vision for Europe. And the people he killed were mostly Labour party youth members.

    An uptick in conversions afterwards is news to me however. Got any links for that?

    So what you're actually referring to when you're crying out about terrorism is the general climate towards Muslims in the West? I'm not sure how terrorised Muslims are in the West. Certainly those I know don't seem to be especially afraid from day to day. There was quite a bit of fear amongst Norwegian Muslims after the bomb in Oslo, and before everyone found out that it was a Norwegian Christian fundamentalist who was responsible. They feared - and not without reason - that they would bear the collective blame for a terrorist attack committed by Muslims in Norway. Luckily for them, what happened wasn't done by a Muslim, but there was still a lot of hate against Muslims and Islam in social media that afternoon. That whole incident made people more aware of not accusing Muslims in general for anything another Muslim does, so to some extent, things got a little better.

    And as you say, the situation for Christians in (many) Muslim countries is very bad, but that can't be a reason to make it worse for Muslims in the West.

    And finally, who's trying to justify any attack? I think everyone is in agreement that this incident is really bad. We're just opposed to call any violent episode that happens between people of different beliefs as terrorism. Doing so dilutes the meaning of the word, and makes it less useful.
     
  16. Wolfbeckett

    Wolfbeckett Jerkin' and nonsense.

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    Don't bother dude, just read the tone of every post he's made in this thread. It's not an attempt to foster a real discussion, it's an attempt to inflame and provoke people. Don't engage with that behavior.
     
  17. ArguCa

    ArguCa Prince

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    Yea, blame other with something if they are not thinking like you. How cool.
     
  18. Arwon

    Arwon

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    It's pretty indisutable that if you reversed the religious affiliations here every media outlet in the United States would have startedyelling "terrorism" ten seconds after the story broke.

    Which is odd, because I'm pretty sure "angry lone white dude tapping into what are esentially mainstream prejudices" would be the most common form of non-state political violence in the United States of America. Targeting of Muslims with violence is certainly more common than the reverse.
     
  19. ArguCa

    ArguCa Prince

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    NetGear I missed this post.

    I wasn't addressed you on that post. Just check some sites, forums etc. and you can see there are many people trying to justify this attack. According to some people they deserved that. Sounds like a joke, right? but no.

    And some media like fox news and cnn etc. first they tried to publish it just like a "parking issue" they didn't even mentioned that victims were Muslims.

    Many people also surprised and said "we heard this on twitter, shouldn't we have heard from actual news?"

    The father of two of the victims said Wednesday that one of his daughters had previously told her family about Hicks having a problem with the way she looked.

    Does this sound like parking issue? I don't think so.
     
  20. Cheetah

    Cheetah Deity

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    I'm sure lots of media would have called it terrorism, and it would have been just as erroneous. [Except perhaps for a rather weak argument that one could see it as one point in a longer list of violent attacks by Muslims.]

    Are there a lot of violence in America that is not directed at family or other near relations?

    It sounds like an incidence which involves racism and hate. But it still doesn't sound like terrorism.
     

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