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Cheap and Nasty Strategies

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Strategy & Tips' started by MirandaCore, Jun 17, 2002.

  1. MirandaCore

    MirandaCore Chieftain

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    I know I know. Cheap strategies detract from the game. But I don't understand why no one has posted in great detail any of the ones I've found. Here's a list:

    1. Right of Passage. When I've got a tech superior military (i.e. knights vs pikeman or worse or calvary against anything under rifleman), instead of declaring war against the opponent, I make a right of passage agreement w/ them (this only works if they're polite and u haven't fought w/ them yet). Then I send in my knights or calvary and post 3 or 4 of 'em to each major city. At the right moment, I attack and can normally take out at least 10 of their largest cities. Then I wipe out that civ because the computer doesn't know how to respond to a strategy like that.

    2. A modified cheapo is to do everything I said in 1., then on the second turn of the war when the computer is suing for peace, evacuate all of ur units out of the cities u captured AND TRADE THESE CITIES BACK FOR THE UNCONQUERED ONES. Then immediately retake the cities that u had just evacuated. This way, u get all of the computer's cities except for the capital.

    3. To capture the capital, make a third peace with that civilization. Post 5 or 6 calvary or knights near the capital. When the 30 or 40 units in the capital move out (the computer is too stupid to leave them in the capital), attack the capital and destroy the civ.

    Repeat process with next polite civilization.

    I've taken out civs of 40 cities or more in 5 turns with that strategy. Thats why most of my games on MONARCH end either on domination or conquest.

    Always go for the knockout punch when they least expect it :D
     
  2. Sullla

    Sullla Patrician Roman Dictator

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    A thread for the exploit-happy... :rolleyes:

    Well, if you really think that attacking the AI via "ROP rape" is a fair strategy when they can't see it coming, can't possibly defend against it, and will continue to sign the same agreements regardless of what you do... go ahead and do so. You'll be bored of the game pretty quickly though. Trading cities back to the AI for other cities? You're playing a VERY old copy of the game; download the latest patches, as that exploit at least has been removed.

    If this is the way you win your games, are you really outplaying the other civs or just looking for holes in the AI programming and exploiting them for all they are worth?
     
  3. God

    God God

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    With the ROP rape, you won't be able to do that too any other civ other than the first one you do it to.
     
  4. Hobbes

    Hobbes Utilitarian Despot

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    Try that against a real opponent (i.e. a human player as soon as multi-player is available), and I think your results will be somewhat different.
     
  5. Japher

    Japher Voted for Bush

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    MirandaCore, nice strat. I have some real annoying neighbors that I think I will try that on. hehe

    As for everyone insulting/bashing MC for this stratagy, give 'em a break! The thread is called cheap and nasty, no one said it was fair or even right. Heck, ROP rape is what the Americans did to the Native Americans. As for Sulla's comments; no one said war is fair, and this strat. is historically called a blitz. No it is not fair, your not suppose to see it coming, and you are not suppose to be able to defend against it. I do agree that the AI tend to be a little idiotic to keep signing treaties, or backing down, that you keep breaking (sounds a lot like the middle east to me).
     
  6. dunk

    dunk Warlord

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    I think all of those strategies have been made obsoloete by 1.21.
     
  7. alpha one

    alpha one Jarl

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    If you use right of "passage" to destroy a civilization, no other civilizations will trust you and won't sign "right of passage" with you. Also, trading cities are very difficult.
     
  8. Zeromus

    Zeromus Chieftain

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    Told!

    Heh. You know. Like the ai civs when they win...

    I thought it was funny.:crazyeye:
     
  9. Sullla

    Sullla Patrician Roman Dictator

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    A sneak attack is one thing. A broken deal is one thing. These are meant to be a part of the game, and there's nothing wrong with them. Signing a ROP and moving 10 tanks outside of every enemy city, then declaring war and capturing all of them to avoid war weariness is an abuse of the rules of the game, something called an exploit. No civilization would EVER allow you to move your entire military right up to their cities while they stand there paralyzed and unable to respond while you destroy them. Why is it an exploit? It sidesteps the basic nature of a turn based strategy game, by exploiting the fact that the AI can do nothing when it isn't it's "turn." Good luck finding a human this stupid in a multiplayer game. There's a big difference between a "dastardly" move, which is fair and within the spirit of the game, and an exploit that searches for loopholes in the game's programming and uses them to gain an unfair advantage. Signing a 200gpt deal for techs and then declaring war to break it is another example of such an exploit, because the AI CANNOT see it coming. It can't "think", so to speak.

    The diplomatic penalties for this are laughable. About the only thing that gets taken off the table is gpt and ROP deals. The other civs will still talk to you, and still trade with you in lump sum payments, no matter how many terrible things you do in the game. This hasn't been fixed in any patch, and in all honesty I don't think it's something that can be fixed in a patch. Again, I'll just say that if this is the way you have to play to win... you're not really playing the game at all, just looking for ways to exploit flaws in the game's programming.

    Nothing said here is an attack on any person, but instead on a philosophy that believes that these moves are good "strategies" for winning the game.
     
  10. Gregski

    Gregski Mostly Harmless

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    Agree 100% with you Sculla, I can't see a ROP abuse attack take place in the real world. Maybe ROP should be changed so that you may only leave a few units in the other country, or if you break a treaty your citizens take arms against such despicable acts and you get loads of free units or such like.
     
  11. Zeromus

    Zeromus Chieftain

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    Told again!:D

    If you ROP rape one ai team, you won't be able to do that to anyone else. End of story. Besides, what kind of fun is that? You call that war? There is no war to speak of! I think you are scared to fight the ai in a battle lasting more than a turn or so. Learn how to fight!

    Three words: Increase your medication.:)
     
  12. eighty

    eighty Boycott Milk

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    I think this ROP thing, once used, can be used again against another civ, provided they didn't know you at the time the initial abuse occured. Also, diplomatic reprecussions are greater the higher the skill level and dependent on your power. If you are the most powerful civ in the game, you can either get away with more abuse or cause more civs to gang up on you. Further, what is the point of debating whether or not this tactic is "real war"? It is just a game....
     
  13. ChickinSht

    ChickinSht Small woodland creature

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    I think the point is more that it's just a crappy strat from an old version, which only works in specific, rare occurances.
     
  14. zeeter

    zeeter Emperor

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    Why are we all bombing MirandaCore? He said that its a cheap strategy. He acknowledged that it takes away from the game. He's not here bragging that he can gain the highest score in the world without telling us he used an exploit. Now, if he were stating that this is a strategy more people should use, I would disagree as it is an exploit. However, I think I will try this tonight, just for fun.
     
  15. D.Shaffer

    D.Shaffer Warlord

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    Another fun thing to do, that usually doesnt happen very often. If you are significantly beating back a civilization, you can do the following.

    1: Move a significant amount of troops next to the capital

    2: Sue for peace. As part of the peace settlement, grab as many cities as you can, concentrating on those closest to the capital. If you time this just right and have captured enough territory, they will surrender ALL their cities to you but their capital.

    3: Immediately attack and grab the capital. Instant empire. If someone else is ALSO attacking them, instead let THEM take it over. Since the cities surrounding the capital are likely well developed, you'll likely capture the ex-capital via assimilation anyways.

    This doesnt ALWAYS work, but remember you can go to the diplomacy screen many times. See what cities he wont give up and move your troops to capture those along with the capital. Sure you could probably capture them anyways, but this way you gain free defenders and no resistance.
     
  16. provolt

    provolt Chieftain

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    My favorite cheap stratagy only works against non-religious civs.

    1) Get an advanced government type. (Democracy works well.)

    2) Sell it to the target civ for as much as you can get. (No gold per turn, luxuries, or resources.)

    3) Move all of your attack troops to the border, and when they change to anarchy, demand something ridiculous (my favorite is 1000 gpt). When they refuse, attack.

    Five turns of war with the enemy unable to produce any new units.

    provolt
     
  17. MirandaCore

    MirandaCore Chieftain

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    Do civs actually gang up on u? Perhaps because I have an older version, that has never happened to me. For me, as long as you war on only one civ at a time, and stop the war only after you have utterly crushed them (which generally takes me 9 turns w/o the ROP strat), no civs have ever ganged up on me.

    Here is a nasty though legit strat:

    During Peace, build hordes of calvary or tanks depending on tech. This will give u extra bullying power. Furthermore, the computer is stupid and won't respond to ur mass build up as long as you stay at peace. When you have 60 or 70 or more calv/tanks, send them up and massacre the enemy civ. This won't work if the comp has rifleman against calvs or mech against tanks, but if they don't they're dead.

    The good thing with masses of fast units is that they never die since the ones that lose in combat withdraw and can heal while the healthy ones keep on charging. That way, ur masses of troops will be around to kill off the second civ... and then the third... and so on.

    I think the reason why people have diplo problems is because they fight lots of small, useless wars. As a rule, I NEVER war unless I am SURE I can wipe them out in ten turns (w/o the ROP strat).

    If you punch a person in the face, they'll only get angry. But if can club somebody unconscious and then knife them in the back, they can't retaliate.
     
  18. eighty

    eighty Boycott Milk

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    I have version 1.21f and I usually play on emperor or sometimes monarch. It is very rare that I can fight only 1 civ at a time. Usually what happens is that the civ I am at war with decided to hate me for no reason and attack. Then they get some other loser civ to sign an alliance against me, so I am at war with 2 civs. Then they get some of them to trade embargo, which I suspect makes the others like me less. The 2nd civ gets someone else to sign an alliance against me. The moderately powerful ones demand tribute, sometimes I pay but usually I am stubborn, and so they declare war on me. This happens most often when I am a powerful civ, but not usually when i am the most powerful.....

    Then of course I like big maps with lots of civs, so that might be a factor.
     
  19. Klasanov

    Klasanov Catz!!!

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    But clubbing someone to death is harder than punching them.

    Anyway, it seems in the v1.21 patch the fast unit retreat rule isn't 100%.

    And, try the build up thing with big civilizations. I bet you if I had 70 samurai attacking Germany, I still would have lost all of them eventually. Their knights, though 1 less point on defense, still wiped the floor with my samurai quite good.

    If you want to overrun a civilization in 10 turns or less, you'd need a lot of units, for it to be a small civ, or for you to be able to take a lot of cities in a matter of turns. Not saying it's not possible, but it's a lot easier said than done.

    Anyway, what level are you playing on? And what version? I'm playing v1.21 and on warlord (Thinking of taking it up a bit though).
     
  20. cafka

    cafka Working Class Hero

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    How many times is it possible to support 70 units, plus the regular defence? That requires a damn powerful position in the game.
     

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