Originally posted by Akka
True respect for someone is to respect his values.
I am respecting her values. If she values some else more, then I respect that value judgement.
Of course, it's just much more convenient to disguise cowardice, lazyness, egocentrism and egoticisme as "respect", as absurd and contradictary as it is.
I'll accept the charges of lazyness and egocentrism - guilty as charge my lord.
Not guilty to cowardice though.
Talk about red herring and straw man
I prefer my herring pickled
Bah, hypocrisy is the common tool used by people to justify how they can do their whims without bothering about others. Hardly anything new.
Just how am I being hypocritical? We play by the same rules. It would be hypocritical if I expect one rule for me and a different one for others.
Cheating ;)
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Akka
Moody old mage.
Yeah, just act dumb and pretend you understand something else.
Respecting the values of someone is that if this person's values are trust and fidelity, you don't lie and don't cheat with her.
Which is obviously something you won't bother with.
Of course. I'm sure that when you cheat your "girlfriend" (should I say "sex toy" rather ?), you answer truthfully if she ask whether or not you're seeing somebody else.
Or perhaps smart-ass answer ?
I cheat her, I don't care for her feelings, I don't care for betraying her, but, err... It's because I respect her ! And I'm not an hypocrite !
Akka, Obviously, we have totally different value systems. Mine is not better than yours; yours is not better than mine, they are just different.
If what I do doesn't hurt you or "yours" are you happy to let me live with my value system? I'm happy to let you have yours so long as you don't try and convert me. Is that a deal you can live with?
If what I do doesn't hurt you or "yours" are you happy to let me live with my value system? I'm happy to let you have yours so long as you don't try and convert me. Is that a deal you can live with?
Gothmog
Dread Enforcer
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As a young man I did not consider any relationship that I was in to be permanent. Under these conditions I did have a few escapades that one might call 'cheating', just as often I was 'cheated' on. Though I would argue that there was no true expectation of fidelity in these relationships from the start.
I never lied about it, though sometimes I wasnt totally forthcoming. The worst thing is finding out from a third party; it comes as a real blow to the old ego. I eventually learned that honesty is indeed the best policy.
These experiences were important in shaping the person I am today and I do not regret them. A couple times I got back together with women I had broken it off with. They were special and I learned a lot about love, fidelity, and forgiveness.
I ended up marrying a woman I first went out with in high school, we were together again on and off while I was in college, and I finally took her to graduate school with me and we lived together there. That was the first time I was in an explicitly agreed upon monogamous relationship, we got married 4 years later, it has been so ever since. I am glad that we did not get married when I was in high school or soon after.
I never lied about it, though sometimes I wasnt totally forthcoming. The worst thing is finding out from a third party; it comes as a real blow to the old ego. I eventually learned that honesty is indeed the best policy.
These experiences were important in shaping the person I am today and I do not regret them. A couple times I got back together with women I had broken it off with. They were special and I learned a lot about love, fidelity, and forgiveness.
I ended up marrying a woman I first went out with in high school, we were together again on and off while I was in college, and I finally took her to graduate school with me and we lived together there. That was the first time I was in an explicitly agreed upon monogamous relationship, we got married 4 years later, it has been so ever since. I am glad that we did not get married when I was in high school or soon after.
Superevie
Latina Goddess™
Listen, if I was cheated on, I wouldn't do it back. In saying that, I'm not saying a wouldn't be tempted to. I would really wanna shove it in his face and get my revenge. But in the end, I would feel so hurt I couldn't do it. It's not my way to stay in unhealthy relationships: when things turn sour or have been going wrong for awhile, I'm gone.
Akka
Moody old mage.
No, they are not just different, and I don't get into your "one is not better than the other".
Respecting others' values IS BETTER than just saying "I do what I want and I don't care if I hurt others". It's less convenient, because you have to responsible of your acts, and you have to take the consequences of your acts into account, but in no means is "just different".
So, you ask me "respect my values, which are to not respect the values of others".
Bleh, you ask precisely what you deny to others, hypocrisis again.
Not that I'm surprised in the least.
Akka What gives you the supreme right to announce that you are correct, and i am some piece of turd stuck to your shoe.
Can't you accept that there are other people with fully formed value systems out there that happen to live a different life from yourself?
Can't you accept that there are other people with fully formed value systems out there that happen to live a different life from yourself?
Stapel
FIAT 850 coupé
That could mean you leave the person that was such a great help when your grandparents died. It could also mean leaving the person with whom you share the most joyful moments of your life. It might also mean you leave a person you still care about.
Even stepping out of a sour relationship can be very hard.
Akka
Moody old mage.
*I* can. This is precisely why I don't cheat : because I recon that others have their own values, and that I've to respect them, and then not impose *MINE* over them. If a girl wish to have several relationship at the same time, and each on her boyfriends is aware he's not the only one and agree, then it's not something I would do but I accept it as it's THEIR choices and THEIR values.
But CHEATING is precisely the fact of NOT RESPECTING the desires, the values and the feeling of someone.
*I* do respect the different values people can have.
*YOU*, on the other hand, don't. You don't care about values of others, you just act as a little brat "I'll take what I want and I don't care if it hurts people", which means basically that you don't care about anyone's values but your own.
And then you got the nerves to tell *ME* that I can't accept others' values ? Is this some sort of a joke or just another convenient hypocrisis ?
MCdread
Couldn't she get drowned?
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Calm down Akka, I think you didn't understand warmonger well and are jumping to conclusions too soon. He's not saying he doesn't care about what she feels. From what I can read, especially the part where he describes the beggining of his relation, I'd say he and she seem to be broadcasting in the same frequency.
And he didn't tel what sort of relation he had with the 3 girlfriends at the same time. There are other types of relations other than full comitment.
OT: I never cheated, and don't intend to do, but can't say never, and given a flagrant situation to, I have to be honest and say I really don't know if I'd resist in all types of situation.
And he didn't tel what sort of relation he had with the 3 girlfriends at the same time. There are other types of relations other than full comitment.
OT: I never cheated, and don't intend to do, but can't say never, and given a flagrant situation to, I have to be honest and say I really don't know if I'd resist in all types of situation.
Akka
Moody old mage.
It's ain't all important for YOU.
It happens that, for some people, their relationship with their significant other is a bit more involving than shopping to get the best product they can afford.
Time to get your own "advise" back : can't you accept that there are other people with fully formed value systems out there that happen to live a different life from yourself ?
And for them, getting backstabbed, betryed, and losing the trust they built a whole part of their life upon is a bit more damaging than "bah, nevermind, I'll find another one".
Akka
Moody old mage.
MCDread : if it was the case, then the word "cheating" would not be appropriate. Cheating explicitely imply that you betray someone, that you do in their back because you know they would not want you to do it.
As I said in the very post you quoted : if everyone that is involved in does agree, then no problem. But "cheating" is NOT something you do with the consent of everyone involved - if not it's not cheating.
As I said in the very post you quoted : if everyone that is involved in does agree, then no problem. But "cheating" is NOT something you do with the consent of everyone involved - if not it's not cheating.
SideshowBob
Ah, winter finally.
On my girlfriend - never, but I do in my sleep sometimes with some people I've got unfinished business with. And yet I'm aware of my girlfriend in those dreams and then I feel horrible. I think I could and would resist the temptation in real life though. I couldn' do it to my so, and I hope she won't do it to me.
In Civ I have cheated a lot before I learnt the game, then it got boring so I stopped. And I have tried to cheat in school a couple of times when I was stressed and didn't have time nor strength to read, but I don't know how to cheat, it's difficult and I lack the techniques to do it successfully so I've learnt to "cheat" myself through an exam writing so long and complicated answers that the teacher have thought I know what I speak of. It's kind of depressing though. I usually get the same reults in a test whether I have read or not if I have attended the lessons. Almost perfect but never quite.
In Civ I have cheated a lot before I learnt the game, then it got boring so I stopped. And I have tried to cheat in school a couple of times when I was stressed and didn't have time nor strength to read, but I don't know how to cheat, it's difficult and I lack the techniques to do it successfully so I've learnt to "cheat" myself through an exam writing so long and complicated answers that the teacher have thought I know what I speak of. It's kind of depressing though. I usually get the same reults in a test whether I have read or not if I have attended the lessons. Almost perfect but never quite.
Akka
Moody old mage.
Somehow, I've some trouble to believe that all the girlfriends were all aware that they had a shared relationship.
I also have some doubt that the man whose was in a relationship with Warmonger's wife when she decided she would be her wife, was aware he was in a non-exclusive relationship.
MCdread
Couldn't she get drowned?
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These things are very complicated Akka, and each situation is a situation, and each person is different.
Imagine that there is this woman you're terribly in love with, you've been made for each other, and you know feeling is mutual. There's only one detail, she's in an older relationship with someone else. You know she doesn't love her boyfriend/husband anymore, but she can't do the last step. What are you gonna do? Walk away and make 3 people miserable or "fight" for the person you want?
Imagine that there is this woman you're terribly in love with, you've been made for each other, and you know feeling is mutual. There's only one detail, she's in an older relationship with someone else. You know she doesn't love her boyfriend/husband anymore, but she can't do the last step. What are you gonna do? Walk away and make 3 people miserable or "fight" for the person you want?
Akka
Moody old mage.
Things are very complicated because people try to find every kind of pathetical excuses to justify that they just want to do what they wish without bothering with what others can feel.
If she does not love her boyfriend, she has to leave him. If she had not done it yet, and I'm in love with her, well I'll ask for her to clear up her situation before doing anything with her.
If she really doesn't love him anymore, then there is no problem quitting him.
If she still love him, then she has nothing to do with me.
If she loves both of us, well then him and I have to agree on a shared relationship, which I highly doubt any of us will accept.
I don't see what is "complicated" here.
If she does not love her boyfriend, she has to leave him. If she had not done it yet, and I'm in love with her, well I'll ask for her to clear up her situation before doing anything with her.
If she really doesn't love him anymore, then there is no problem quitting him.
If she still love him, then she has nothing to do with me.
If she loves both of us, well then him and I have to agree on a shared relationship, which I highly doubt any of us will accept.
I don't see what is "complicated" here.
Stapel
FIAT 850 coupé
You simplify stuff Akka! Relationships are never black & white.
