1. We have added the ability to collapse/expand forum categories and widgets on forum home.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. All Civ avatars are brought back and available for selection in the Avatar Gallery! There are 945 avatars total.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. To make the site more secure, we have installed SSL certificates and enabled HTTPS for both the main site and forums.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Civ6 is released! Order now! (Amazon US | Amazon UK | Amazon CA | Amazon DE | Amazon FR)
    Dismiss Notice
  5. Dismiss Notice
  6. Forum account upgrades are available for ad-free browsing.
    Dismiss Notice

Cherokee leader?

Discussion in 'Civ - Ideas & Suggestions' started by TyrannusRex, Feb 26, 2018.

?

Who would make a good Cherokee leader in Civilization?

  1. Attakullakulla

    33.3%
  2. Nanyehi (a.k.a. Nancy Ward)

    50.0%
  3. Other (please state)

    16.7%
  1. TyrannusRex

    TyrannusRex Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2017
    Messages:
    65
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    West Virginia
    So, I've seen a Civ 5 mod that adds the Cherokee, led by Attakullakulla. I'm still doing research into the Cherokee for an idea I had, but so far, it seems like a decent choice. Previously though, I had been leaning towards Nanyehi (Nancy Ward) as a leader; her story interested me, and she seemed like a cool, overlooked woman from history.
    Which of these do you think could potentially be a good representative for the Cherokee Nation in Civilization? Is there an even better potential leader that I've overlooked?
    Would love to hear from members of the Cherokee Nation, if any are on here. :)
     
    TahamiTsunami likes this.
  2. Guandao

    Guandao Rajah of Minyue and Langkasuka

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2011
    Messages:
    4,587
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    New York City
    How about Ostenaco as a possible leader choice? My personal preference is for the pre-Removal Cherokee leaders. Nancy Ward/Nanyehi seems like an appealing idea though.
     
    TahamiTsunami likes this.
  3. Zaarin

    Zaarin My Dearest Doctor

    Joined:
    May 14, 2016
    Messages:
    3,833
    Location:
    Terok Nor
    I'd prefer to see a Muskogean tribe, ideally the Choctaw led by Pushmataha. Pre-removal Cherokee history was largely characterized by appeasement and capitulation, and it's hard to call post-removal Cherokee an independent civilization rather than a dependent nation of the US (which is their current status). If it must be the Cherokee, though, Ata-gul' kulu (Attakullakulu) is...an okay choice.
     
    TahamiTsunami and Guandao like this.
  4. Guandao

    Guandao Rajah of Minyue and Langkasuka

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2011
    Messages:
    4,587
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    New York City
    My preference for the so-called 5 Civilized Tribes goes like this:
    1. Choctaw (Pushmataha)
    2. Muscogee (Opothleyahola)
    3. Chickasaw (Tishomingo)
    4. Seminole (Osceola or Micanopy)
    5. Cherokee (Nanyehi/Atakullakulla)
     
    TahamiTsunami and Zaarin like this.
  5. Zaarin

    Zaarin My Dearest Doctor

    Joined:
    May 14, 2016
    Messages:
    3,833
    Location:
    Terok Nor
    I'd switch Cherokee and Seminole, but otherwise same.
     
    TahamiTsunami likes this.
  6. Guandao

    Guandao Rajah of Minyue and Langkasuka

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2011
    Messages:
    4,587
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    New York City
    I guess the Cherokee should have more precedence over the Seminole, who formed in a process of ethnogenesis......:p
     
    Zaarin and TahamiTsunami like this.
  7. TyrannusRex

    TyrannusRex Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2017
    Messages:
    65
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    West Virginia
    I'm having trouble creating unique units, improvements, and abilities for the Cherokee that are more in line with pre-removal leaders than with the Trail of Tears. Any ideas?
     
  8. TahamiTsunami

    TahamiTsunami Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2017
    Messages:
    130
    Gender:
    Male
    I voted for Nancy Ward since I found her a tad more interesting but Attakullakulla and Ostenaco would be fine choices too.

    @TyrannusRex I was having a similar problem with finding unique units for the Choctaw. The best I could find for them were the mounted rifles during the Civil War and it looks like the Cherokee had mounted rifles as well. For something per-removal, the best I could see were blowguns but they definitely weren't unique to the Cherokee. It is quite difficult finding unique units that could be different enough from a typical warrior.

    I'm not sure about a unique improvement but perhaps the ability could be connected to the white and red organizations of their society?

    Edit: I saw on a Civ 5 Cherokee mod that their unique unit is the aniwina which replaces the musketman. I don't know much about them so it might be worth taking a closer look.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2018
    Zaarin likes this.
  9. Guandao

    Guandao Rajah of Minyue and Langkasuka

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2011
    Messages:
    4,587
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    New York City
    I'll try looking for appropriate names for a possible Choctaw unique names tomorrow....I have a thick book on the Amerindian Southeast
     
    TahamiTsunami likes this.
  10. TahamiTsunami

    TahamiTsunami Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2017
    Messages:
    130
    Gender:
    Male
    @Guandao As long as it isn't too much trouble for you then its definitely appreciated! It turns out that Google wasn't the greatest on helping me find a good Choctaw UU from the War of 1812 or earlier. Since both the Choctaw and Cherokee had mounted rifle groups in the Civil War, I'll be curious to see how different the potential UUs can be for them or even the other southeast tribes for that matter.
     
  11. Guandao

    Guandao Rajah of Minyue and Langkasuka

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2011
    Messages:
    4,587
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    New York City
    @TahamiTsunami The Choctaw word for their warriors was "Tashka". Choctaw males were divided up into 4 ranks:
    1) Grand chiefs/village chiefs/war chiefs
    2) Hatak Holitopa "beloved men"
    3) Tashka "warriors"
    4) Hatak Imatahali "youth or supporting men", never struck a blow in war, or had killed only a woman or child....:sad:
     
    TahamiTsunami likes this.
  12. awesome

    awesome Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2009
    Messages:
    2,642
    Location:
    behind you
    Neither. I'd probably go with Sequoya. He's fairly well known and creating an alphabet is a pretty awesome accomplishment.
    I'd say that if you need a female leader for the Americas, go with the Iroquois, Apache, or Maya.
     
    TahamiTsunami likes this.
  13. Zaarin

    Zaarin My Dearest Doctor

    Joined:
    May 14, 2016
    Messages:
    3,833
    Location:
    Terok Nor
    He also never led the Cherokee in any sense whatsoever. You could point to Gandhi; you could also point to the fact that a significant portion of the serious fanbase dislikes Gandhi as a tired out meme. :p But who knows, maybe Sir Isaac Newton will lead England in Civ7 and Thomas Edison will lead America; then Sequoyah would be right at home leading the Cherokee. :crazyeye:
     
    Krajzen, Guandao and TahamiTsunami like this.
  14. TahamiTsunami

    TahamiTsunami Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2017
    Messages:
    130
    Gender:
    Male
    @Guandao I do love how the Hatak Imatahali are basically the dunces of the Choctaw men! The Tashka could be a satisfactory UU as a warrior replacement with stone-bladed axes called iski-fa. Perhaps they could have increased attack strength when fighting near rivers?

    Also, perhaps the UU for the Cherokee could be based around their short spears?

    @awesome Agreed that Sequoyah was a very accomplished and noteworthy person, but I still think that Nanyehi or the others mentioned above would probably be stronger choices.
     
    Guandao likes this.
  15. Guandao

    Guandao Rajah of Minyue and Langkasuka

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2011
    Messages:
    4,587
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    New York City
    I have encountered support for Martin Luther King Jr to lead America in a Civ game....
     
    TahamiTsunami and Krajzen like this.
  16. Zaarin

    Zaarin My Dearest Doctor

    Joined:
    May 14, 2016
    Messages:
    3,833
    Location:
    Terok Nor
    Who would actually be much closer to Gandhi than Tom Edison or Sequoyah, since Gandhi and MLK were at least leaders of their respective nations in a certain sense. Gandhi led the independence movement; MLK led the civil rights movement. Sequoyah...invented an alphabet. :p
     
    TahamiTsunami likes this.
  17. Krajzen

    Krajzen Warlord

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2013
    Messages:
    2,138
    Location:
    Poland
    On the other hand, civ5 had Hiawatha as a leader for Iroquis.
    A mythical guy who had like few sentences of a civilopedia 'biography'.

    Civ series also had so brilliant leader choices as Gorgo (check her pathetic wikipedia biography), Maria of Portugal (only thing she did in her reign was running away), Boudica as leader of "Celts" with a Scottish dress (not to mention the only thing she did was genocide of several Roman cities and then being devastatingly curb stomped by the first counteroffensive they sent), Joan of Arc for France (don't get me wrong, I love her as a historical character)...
     
    Zaarin likes this.
  18. Zaarin

    Zaarin My Dearest Doctor

    Joined:
    May 14, 2016
    Messages:
    3,833
    Location:
    Terok Nor
    Sure, but I'd like to see Civilization's leader choices improve, not just add to the list of problematic leader choices. :p (I'll...sort of give Hiawatha a pass. Most historians agree he existed, and it's virtually impossible to find someone who lead the League as a whole because the League was led by a council--you basically have to resort to an individual tribe's warchief, like Joseph Brant, to get a historically attested leader. Which is also what I espouse: choose Joseph Brant as the leader of the Iroquois. But if you really want someone who led the whole League, Hiawatha's pretty much your only choice.)
     
    TahamiTsunami likes this.
  19. Krajzen

    Krajzen Warlord

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2013
    Messages:
    2,138
    Location:
    Poland
    For Cherokee, I'd prefer Nancy Ward, or rather NANYEHI as was her narive name.

    Now, I am not sure about Cherokee abilities and bonuses...
     
    TahamiTsunami likes this.
  20. Lord Lakely

    Lord Lakely Unintentionally a feminist.

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2008
    Messages:
    591
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Belgium
    You might want to look at their traditions and typical dances for ideas. That where I got the abilities for my Sioux civ from.

    Muscogean cultures are also descendants from the Mississippian mound builders. A bonus to wonder construction could be an option. The other bonuses should probably be tied to warfare and agriculture, I suppose.
     
    TahamiTsunami likes this.

Share This Page