China evacuates millions as typhoon nears

[Bugfatty300]

The only reason China pulls this off is because the people are used to being herded about like sheep by the authorities. Where as in most free societies people will resist such abuse and the government will be put in a nasty disposition.

So I guess one of the few "benifit" of having an authoritarian conformist society is that you can herd people to and fro more efficiently?

 

[Tee Kay]

A crappy 5th world nation is capable of evacuation more than 1 million residents out of harms way and yet the Bush administration failed to empty the city of New Orleans. Can we have a more incompetent government?

In all fairness, some residents refused to leave New Orleans. Still, the Bush admin performance during Katrina was terrible at best.

Oh and hardly a fifth world country.

 

[Dida]

We can only hope he extends you the same courtesy.

Now, you can try and answer my question.

I will partake in discussions with you once you finish high school. Good luck.

 

[Masquerouge]

People know how to evacuate on their own.

History shows they clearly don't.

The only reason China pulls this off is because the people are used to being herded about like sheep by the authorities. Where as in most free societies people will resist such abuse and the government will be put in a nasty disposition.

So you think it is ultimately a good thing when people died in New Orleans because they weren't evacuated?

TBH I'm a bit torn about the whole issue. It's clear that when disasters occur people have no idea what's good for them, and I think a government response is the only way to efficiently evacuate something as large as a city, but I'm also not fond of having the army forcibly evacuating the town (if that's what actually happened in China, not sure about that).

 

[GoodEnoughForMe]

History shows they clearly don't.

They know how, they just don't choose to; perhaps they underestimate danger, etc. That's still not the governments job to bail out those who can evacuate and choose not to.

 

[Masquerouge]

They know how, they just don't choose to; perhaps they underestimate danger, etc. That's still not the governments job to bail out those who can evacuate and choose not to.

I'm pretty sure that people living in big cities have no idea how to efficiently evacuate when everybody else is also trying to.

There's a big difference between leaving a city when you're the only one to do it, and trying to leave it when millions are doing it simultaneously.
This is why I think government intervention is required when large amounts of people have to be moved.

 

[GoodEnoughForMe]

I'm pretty sure that people living in big cities have no idea how to efficiently evacuate when everybody else is also trying to.

There's a big difference between leaving a city when you're the only one to do it, and trying to leave it when millions are doing it simultaneously.
This is why I think government intervention is required when large amounts of people have to be moved.

There are usually evacuation plans, and typically the national guard tries to eleviate traffic problems. I have no problem with that kind of help, just the forcibly removing from houses.

 

[Princeps]

Cuban evactuation was far more effective then that of New Orleans, simply because they had a plan, which included something elementary as an orderly evacuation conducted in co-operation with the central regime and local officials, whereas Bush thought "let free markets solve it", you know, when induviduals are at work, they'll find their own way out without ineffiecent regulation.

 

[Masquerouge]

There are usually evacuation plans, and typically the national guard tries to eleviate traffic problems. I have no problem with that kind of help, just the forcibly removing from houses.

Fair enough.

But to me the real question of this thread is precisely, how far can or should a government go to protect your life?

A lot of laws and regulations exist around the matter. Euthanasia is still illegal in most places, for instance. Yet why can the state forbid that someone be euthanized, but at the same time can't force someone to evacuate an area about to get hit by a typhoon?

 

[GoodEnoughForMe]

But to me the real question of this thread is precisely, how far can or should a government go to protect your life?

Only far enough to protect you from others who would wish to remove your life and/or rights, or, in the case of a national disaster (like Katrina), give people the option of getting out if they are physically unable to do so. Force is completely wrong though.

A lot of laws and regulations exist around the matter. Euthanasia is still illegal in most places, for instance. Yet why can the state forbid that someone be euthanized, but at the same time can't force someone to evacuate an area about to get hit by a typhoon?

The state is a hypocrite. Euthanasia should be legal.

 

[Masquerouge]

Only far enough to protect you from others who would wish to remove your life and/or rights, or, in the case of a national disaster (like Katrina), give people the option of getting out if they are physically unable to do so. Force is completely wrong though.

I could live with that.

The state is a hypocrite. Euthanasia should be legal.

Agreed

 

[Shadylookin]

Good for China, but I don't think you can compare the two situations.

Since the US didn't forcibly remove people the real question is how many people actually died in the designated safezones around the city? I mean if Joe Blow refused to leave his house that's 20ft below sea level then, while it may be a tragedy, it's all his fault.

 

[Bugfatty300]

So you think it is ultimately a good thing when people died in New Orleans because they weren't evacuated?

What kind of question is that?

I think its ultimately a good thing that people can do as they want even if its bad for their health. I think its ultimately a good thing that its hard for the goverment to break into people's home, steal their property, and then force them into a refugee camp hundreds of miles away.

BTW, people were forced from their homes after katrina by police. Even people in homes with plenty of food and water that were dry and untouched by the hurricane.

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

I will partake in discussions with you once you finish high school. Good luck.

Oh, good, so you'll be happy to answer those questions now, then.

 

[IglooDame]

If the government has the authority to forcibly evacuate you from your home when a hurricane is bearing down on the area, then presumably they have the authority to forcibly evacuate you from your home when it is 20ft below sea level and you're due to take a category 3+ hit within the next dozen years. Or, is in a flood zone that the local river will no doubt wash away soon. Or, is on the side of a hill in Disasterland (aka California) where it is destined to collapse, burn down, or slide down the hill.

That said, on the face of it the Chinese government would appear more competent than the various levels of the US government, assuming that the article didn't overlook anything like this:

But then again, you know what they say about a government that has the buses running on time...