China in BNW

[Mesix]

China was always one of my favorite civs in vanilla and still a good contender in G&K. A solid UU and UB combo really shine and the additional GG make warmongering a breeze.

With the decrease in the early game, I imagine the UB might shine even more. Has anyone played China in BNW yet? What are your thoughts about getting a maintenance free Library which gives +2 now that BNW has made early more scarce?

 

[killmeplease]

their ub increased in value, not much to say about it

 

[Ritzy Cat]

Yes, that is right, lack of early gold makes the paper maker all the better. Outside of that I don't think they have any direct/indirect nerfs or buffs, but still a strong versatile nation.

 

[kider]

Chu-Ko-Nu got downgraded a little, but still stronger overall if you add both hits.

 

[Mesix]

I will give China a try after I have played through all the new civs. Last night I started a game with the reworked France. I guess that means that China will be the second vanilla civ I try out in BNW. I still have 4 of the new civs to try after finishing my French game before I spin up a game as China.

 

[Kintara]

Chu-Ko-Nu got downgraded a little, but still stronger overall if you add both hits.

How?

Also, you can upgrade the chu-ko-nu to a bazooka now, right?

 

[Buccaneer]

What about the AI playing China? If most AI do not start to think about wars until Industrial, did that nerf units like CKN in the hands of the AI? I loved going up against.

 

[Seabastian Civ]

How?

Also, you can upgrade the cho-ko-nu to a bazooka now, right?

I don't have numbers to back this up, but...

I was playing as Assyria, was gifted five CKNs from a city state. Immediately set out to conquer. Rolled up on a city w/ 5 CKNs, 2 seige towers, 2 pikes. The city a comp bow inside. It one hit killed 3 of my CKNs before I took it.

It seemed to me that CKNs are quite weak on defense now, will have to get cover 1&2 before shooting for march.

And yes you can upgrade them to bazookas.

 

[Kintara]

I don't have numbers to back this up, but...

I was playing as Assyria, was gifted five CKNs from a city state. Immediately set out to conquer. Rolled up on a city w/ 5 CKNs, 2 seige towers, 2 pikes. The city a comp bow inside. It one hit killed 3 of my CKNs before I took it.

It seemed to me that CKNs are quite weak on defense now, will have to get cover 1&2 before shooting for march.

And yes you can upgrade them to bazookas.

Hmm, my first impression of your situation makes me wonder if it wasn't just a well-upgraded bowman backed up by Oligarchy and maybe a wall or something. But things have changed subtly in the past, so maybe not.

 

[Seabastian Civ]

Hmm, my first impression of your situation makes me wonder if it wasn't just a well-upgraded bowman backed up by Oligarchy and maybe a wall or something. But things have changed subtly in the past, so maybe not.

Maybe so, but watching my prized CKNs get one shot killed scared the hell out of me!

 

[Optional]

We need numbers. I just checked the Civilopedia regarding the Chu-Ko-Nu, and yes, there has been a downgrade, except not on defense.
Crossbow:
13
18;
Chu-Ko-Nu:
13
14
The Chu-Ko-Nu used to be just like a Crossbow, but with the ability to attack twice. So they've been pruned a little.
I believe it used to come with the Logistics promotion, but the promotion now just says 'may attack twice'. I wonder what that means if you have a Chu-Ko-Nu with Logistics...

 

[Petiscator]

We need numbers. I just checked the Civilopedia regarding the Chu-Ko-Nu, and yes, there has been a downgrade, except not on defense.
Crossbow:
13
18;
Chu-Ko-Nu:
13
14
The Chu-Ko-Nu used to be just like a Crossbow, but with the ability to attack twice. So they've been pruned a little.
I believe it used to come with the Logistics promotion, but the promotion now just says 'may attack twice'. I wonder what that means if you have a Chu-Ko-Nu with Logistics...

Chu-Ko-Nu have always had less attack than a Crossbowman. That was the main reason why I prefered Longbowman over them. I just thought it was 15/16 ranged strenght, not 14. But I can confirm this has been like this since GnK, at least.

 

[ptoss1]

Historically, Chu-ko-nus did not have much penetrating power. The crossbows were weak in draw weight and often the arrows were tipped with poison to make up for it. They were more used for civilians and walled defense rather than offensive attacks.

 

[FECAL_URGENCY]

Chu-Ko-Nu have always had less attack than a Crossbowman. That was the main reason why I prefered Longbowman over them. I just thought it was 15/16 ranged strenght, not 14. But I can confirm this has been like this since GnK, at least.

Once you've upgraded them to Gatling Guns they're the same though, except that one has nearly twice as much XP due to having been attacking twice as often from the get-go .

 

[Storminator]

I believe it used to come with the Logistics promotion, but the promotion now just says 'may attack twice'. I wonder what that means if you have a Chu-Ko-Nu with Logistics...

It means you have 3 attacks but only 2 moves to attack with . . .

PS

 

[Petiscator]

Once you've upgraded them to Gatling Guns they're the same though, except that one has nearly twice as much XP due to having been attacking twice as often from the get-go .

Oh, that's true indeed! I still think I prefer the Longbowman, though... Chu-ko-nu are very good and the double promotion makes it quick for them to get +1 range, but the Longbowmen don't expose themselves and have a bigger chance of survival on a siege. Well, both are awesome units

BTW, that's a quite....... unusual..... username. I lol'd

 

[Murrica]

It means you have 3 attacks but only 2 moves to attack with . . .

PS

What? I always thought they got the regular upgrade when they are made. Didn't know they counted as two different upgrades. So does that mean Longbows can get an extra range as well?

 

[_invy_]

What? I always thought they got the regular upgrade when they are made. Didn't know they counted as two different upgrades. So does that mean Longbows can get an extra range as well?

Fire arrows 200 miles away

 

[Chronicle]

What? I always thought they got the regular upgrade when they are made. Didn't know they counted as two different upgrades. So does that mean Longbows can get an extra range as well?

No, their promotion is the standard +1 range.

 

[Mesix]

It means you have 3 attacks but only 2 moves to attack with . . .

PS

I don't know if it has been changed in BNW, but in Vanilla this was not true. I had a Scout upgraded to three levels gaining +1 movement before being upgraded by a ruin to an Archer. After paying to upgrade to CKN and getting the Logistics promotion, I could still only attack 2 times each turn.

It was still a very nice unit mind you with the sight bonus, ignoring terrain movement, and shooting twice each turn. Since it was Vanilla, I was not able to upgrade the unit since ranged units ended at Crossbow/CKN. Not that it mattered, because like most of my Vanilla China games it ended in an early Conquest Victory IIRC.