China reacts angrily to new US arms deal with Taiwan

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by RedRalph, Jan 29, 2010.

  1. RedRalph

    RedRalph Deity

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    Hm. Patroklos told me that China would be utterly incapable of invading anyway. he said even the US would have an extremely difficult time. If this actually does anything to change the balance, that's one thing. But if, like he said, it really doesnt change anything then its just a pointless provocation.

    What behaviours did China stop doing since that incident?
     
  2. Tee Kay

    Tee Kay Silly furry

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    Obviously, since technically the goddamn Civil War still haven't ended.

    This is pretty normal stuff and to be expected.

    How big is the PRC? How many country does the PRC border?

    How big is the ROC?
     
  3. Patroklos

    Patroklos Deity

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    And in order to stay uninvadable Taiwan has to continually update and replace old or worn out or expired equipment.

    There is no logical objection to this, its making a mountain out of a mole hill. It might be different if Tiawan was a dictatorship with proven aggressive tendancies or a non functioning democracy, but it is a modern liberal democracy by any standard who has been at complete peace for over sixty years. China is being childish, as it is so very often.
     
  4. Harvin87

    Harvin87 The Youth

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    considering that China doesn't consider their own population as humans... I bet they will not hesitate to send millions to die until this brand new defence system can no longer fire
     
  5. Tee Kay

    Tee Kay Silly furry

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    You are being sarcastic, surely.
     
  6. Theige

    Theige American Baron

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    The problem for China is they can't get any of their millions across the Taiwan straight.
     
  7. neutrino

    neutrino Warlord

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    China's playbook on Taiwan: Diplomatically isolate Taiwan as much as possible. Words are cheap, so does making periodic threats and tirades.

    China has framed the whole thing, so China wins in any case:

    1. Only a very small number of countries recognize Taiwan by now and the numbers have been going down: China wins.

    2. Someone like the US continues to sell arms to Taiwan: China still wins, as the scale of arms sales is not a whole lot (compared to how much China has been spending) and does not include items like ballistic missiles. In the meantime, China has far larger GDP to work with and Taiwan cannot win arms race against China.

    3. Taiwan's attitude towards China has been indecisive: Trying to walk the tight rope and not piss off China. Taiwan vascillates: China wins.

    4. The only variable remaining consists of how will othe Pacific-rim powers like the US, Japan, and Australia, and Southern power like India position themselves with respect to China in the future.
     
  8. Lord Baal

    Lord Baal Deity

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    I usually side with RRW on international relations issues, but Patty and Oerdin are right about this (though I've never heard anything about the Chinese embassy bombing being intentional). Taiwan needs to update its defence systems to keep pace with China. Even though an invasion is highly unlikely, Taiwan does not wish to take chances with its security. That being the case, it will continually purchase new defence systems from the US, or anyone else willing to sell, in order to maintain its deterrance. The US is doing this to both help maintain Taiwanese deterrance and to keep them from feeling abandoned, not to mention the obvious financial motivation.

    As for China being angry, you'll note their press release's mention of "Cold War diplomacy," "stuck in the past," and other terminology designed to make this US move look reactionary and anachronistic. It's a tactic aimed at international readers, who are accustomed by years of the Bush Administration to think of the US as arrogant interventionists stuck in the past. China is simply playing this for a little outrage. They'll do nothing, it's basic diplomatic posturing, but they have to appear angrier about it than usual due to their strong stance on Taiwan. I also wouldn't be surprised if there were some quid pro quo regarding Iran or North Korea on this, as you suggested RRW, but that's just speculation.
     
  9. Lord Baal

    Lord Baal Deity

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    China does not want an arms race with Taiwan. I believe China's talk of peaceful re-integration of Taiwan is truthful, as they have no desire for a hard, bloody war, especially one involving the US. I also believe, however, that they are completely honest about their intention to invade Taiwan if it ever attempts to declare independence. Their paranoia about territorial integrity and decades of diplomatic posturing requires it.
     
  10. The Imp

    The Imp Kinslayer

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  11. Lord Baal

    Lord Baal Deity

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    Pfft, that's got nothing on their secret navy that Zheng He has hidden with him.
     
  12. Theige

    Theige American Baron

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    Like I said... :D
     
  13. fishjie

    fishjie omghi2u

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    They are the proud owners of trillions of dollars of united states debt. We've got you by the balls, sorry.

    While China and the US are linked economically, China is in a far stronger position than the US. Do you think that the US is the only one who buys our happy meals? Please.

    EDIT: While I can't speak for either government, I have talked to many Taiwanese and Chinese people, and both desire to be reunified. That seems to be the sentiment to me, so peaceful reunification is probably going to happen in a few decades from now, like it or not.
     
  14. Patroklos

    Patroklos Deity

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    Them the last thing China wants to do is start an aggressive war, because the first thin the US will do is cancel all of without any ill effects for the US.
     
  15. NBAfan

    NBAfan boss

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    If that happens no one is going to miss their junk.:lol:
     
  16. Patroklos

    Patroklos Deity

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    I guaruntee you India, Indonesia, Nigeria, and Mexico amongst many others would like nothing better than to pick up producing cheap junk where China left off.

    Finding people to make cheap junk is not nearly as hard as finding people to buy it, which is why America and other major Western nations are in a superior position relative to China.
     
  17. fishjie

    fishjie omghi2u

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    I was thinking more along the lines of a Chinese liquidation of all the treasuries it has. This would naturally hurt China too, but it would cripple the US. They've threatened this before.

    As for your scenario, the US cancelling its debts would basically make it so that no one would ever want to buy US treasuries again. And since the US loves to deficit spend, I hardly see how that could be considered "no ill effects".

    Since when were happy meals only bought in America? Your last statement isn't really accurate. Besides, you think happy meals are all we make? India isn't the only place that corporations outsource to, China has a huge share of outsourcing as well. Don't forget, it is all the world's major corporations bending over backwards to do business in China, and not the other way around. China is also doing a round of bailouts, but are focusing those on R&D and infrastructure, which is vastly superior to US bailout designed to increase more consumption. Add the 1.3 trillion US treasury bond that China has, hey they're in pretty good shape.
     
  18. RedRalph

    RedRalph Deity

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    I'd really like to hear an economists' view on this. I suspect they would not concur.
     
  19. MobBoss

    MobBoss Off-Topic Overlord

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    Really?

    What happens if we reneg? You report us to equifax? TRW? Freecreditreport.com?

    Right. :lol:

    Point is, if China wants their cash, they cant very well cut off relations with the US either. By joining us together via this debt, you have suddenly realized that it behooves you to play nice with us if you want your cash.

    Feel free to enjoy your false sense of power. Methinks you got rickrolled.
     
  20. fishjie

    fishjie omghi2u

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    I addressed this point in a few posts above yours. I'm sure the US can just cancel their debt with no negative repercussions whatsoever. That's how it works in real life too right, people can declare bankruptcy all the time, and everything's rosy

    (PS I'm being sarcastic)

    A debtor is in a far inferior position to the debt holder. Deny it all you want, but that's just plain facts.
     

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