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China set to launch first Aircraft Carrier

Shekwan

Kim Chi Quaffing Celt
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China is set to launch its first Aircraft Carrier!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-13693495

Spoiler :
Aircraft carrier symbol of China's naval ambitions
By Damian Grammaticas BBC News, Dalian

It is the most visible symbol of China's rising military power.

The giant, grey hulk of China's newest warship, 60,000 tonnes of steel, sits at a dockside in the port of Dalian, almost ready to set sail.

The People's Liberation Army (PLA) has been reluctant to say anything about its first aircraft carrier as it has not yet entered service. But it must be the military's worst-kept secret. It is there for all to see, somewhat incongruously, right behind Dalian's Ikea superstore.

The huge carrier has been years in the making, and it is an unmistakeable sign of China's expanding military and its desire to project Chinese power further beyond its borders than ever before.

"An aircraft carrier is a symbol of the power of your navy," says General Xu Guangyu, who used to serve in the PLA's headquarters and is now retired.

"China should at least be on the same level as other permanent members of the UN Security Council who have carriers."

Gen Xu now advises China's government on its military modernisation programme. Seven nations currently operate carriers - it used to be eight, but the UK has just withdrawn its last one from service and will have to wait several years for a new one to be built.

"It's also a symbol of deterrence," adds Gen Xu, "It's like saying, 'Don't mess with me. Don't think you can bully me.' So it's normal for us to want a carrier. I actually think it's strange if China doesn't have one."
Refit

Dalian is not just a major naval base, it is a major commercial port too. Its docks curve around a huge bay. There is an oil refinery, quays for cargo, and the shipyards where giant cranes tower over the hulls of massive container vessels and tankers under construction.

"The development of our armed forces is connected with the development of our economy," says Gen Xu.

"In energy supplies and trade we now have interests that span the globe. There are vital shipping routes in Asia, the Indian Ocean, Africa, and both sides of the Pacific that we need to protect. So our military strength needs to match the range of our economic and diplomatic activity."

The carrier is a relatively old design and it was not built by China. It was constructed in the 1980s for the navy of the USSR. Named the Varyag, it was never completed. When the Soviet Union collapsed, the rusting hull of the Varyag sat in dockyards in Ukraine.

As other Soviet warships were cut up for scrap a Chinese company with links to the PLA bought the Varyag claiming it wanted to turn it into a floating casino in Macau. It took several years to finally tow it all the way round the world to China, where it was then taken to Dalian. Reports claim it will be named the Shi Lang, after the Chinese admiral who conquered Taiwan in the 17th Century.

The PLA is focusing on both the navy and the air force in its modernisation, having identified them as relatively weak. When it is launched, the carrier will mark a significant leap forward for China's navy.

Watching all this closely is the United States. For more than half a century, since the end of World War II, the US Navy has operated its carrier battle fleets unchallenged in Asia and the Pacific. The US has 11 carriers of its own.

The US and China view each other's military programmes with suspicion. Many in the PLA believe America is trying to encircle it and prevent its rise.

America says China's military developments are opaque and shrouded in secrecy, its real intentions unclear.

"For the longest time China denied that they were going to pursue an aircraft carrier navy even trying to get the world to believe that the purchase of the first aircraft carrier from Ukraine was all about creating a new casino in one of their harbours," says Rick Fisher, a senior analyst at the International Assessment and Strategy Center, a think tank in Virginia, US.

"[It] is going to have aircraft comparable in capability to the recent fighters on American fighter decks in about two to three years time."
Shift of power

Some observers believe China wants to build up to four carriers of its own.

Mr Fisher, who has spent 20 years studying China's military, says it has big ambitions.

"The aircraft carrier is part of China's fulfilment of its 2004 historic mission that the People's Liberation Army will increasingly defend the Communist Party's interests outside of China," he says.

"By the 2020s China wants a military that will be globally deployable and will be able to challenge American interests where they need to be challenged."

Last month the visit of Chen Bingde, the Chief of the General Staff of the PLA, to the Pentagon was trumpeted as an effort to improve long-strained military relations between the US and China.

US and Chinese military bands played together as Gen Chen was hosted in America.

He tried to allay American fears by saying China would never seek to match US military power. China, he said, is way behind America.

"This visit to America, I saw America's military power, I feel stunned, not only do we have no ability to challenge America, but also the American warships and aircraft, America's strategy, it's a real deterrent for us."

China's military is generally believed to be 20 years behind America's in its development. But in its rapid expansion, China is focusing on weapons designed to blunt US military power.

The PLA has invested heavily in submarines. It is believed to be close to deploying the world's first "carrier-killer" ballistic missile, designed to sink aircraft carriers while they are manoeuvring at sea up to 1,500km (930 miles) offshore, and it is building its own stealth fighter aircraft along with advanced carrier-based aircraft built from Russian designs.

All of these can target US bases, US ships and US carriers in Asia. They will make it much more dangerous for US carrier fleets to operate close to China's coast, pushing them out further offshore.

In any future conflict they could make it much harder for the US to operate as freely as it would like. That in turn opens up more room for China to flex its own military muscles in Asia.

Having an aircraft carrier will then enable China to project power further than it has before. So looking on with concern are Vietnam, the Philippines and Malaysia, who all have territorial disputes with Beijing in the South China Sea.

And Taiwan, Korea and Japan that look to the US for their security may start to question how much America can really protect them in future. This may, one day, undermine US security guarantees and its influence in the region.

There is much work to do before China's aircraft carriers become a potent force. But, sitting in the port in Dalian, the carrier is a clear sign of China's naval ambitions and the shift of power that is likely to bring.

So whats the forum opinion of this? Is it a bad idea or good idea on China's part?

I reckon it could be a bad idea because it needlessly antagonises the US. In economic terms the US and China have a good relationship. They pay political lipservice to their respective ideologies, but everyone knows they're pretty tight because of the extensive economic ties.

Why should China start challenging the US militarily by building a dope navy when they have congruous economic interests?
 
Too bad they are largely useless now days against advanced countries such as the U.S.

u forgot the most important part. a pic

_53285211_jex_1068956_de27-1.jpg
 
China is set to launch its first Aircraft Carrier!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-13693495



So whats the forum opinion of this? Is it a bad idea or good idea on China's part?

I reckon it could be a bad idea because it needlessly antagonises the US. In economic terms the US and China have a good relationship. They pay political lipservice to their respective ideologies, but everyone knows they're pretty tight because of the extensive economic ties.

Why should China start challenging the US militarily by building a dope navy when they have congruous economic interests?

A country that does as much international trade as China probably should have a blue water navy. I found it kinda odd that it was a "show of force" for their Navy to be able to patrol off Somalia.
 
Too bad they are largely useless now days against advanced countries such as the U.S.

u forgot the most important part. a pic
Spoiler :

_53285211_jex_1068956_de27-1.jpg

Its not the action that counts, its the thinking behind it.

A country that does as much international trade as China probably should have a blue water navy. I found it kinda odd that it was a "show of force" for their Navy to be able to patrol off Somalia.

Thats very reasonable.

But the Chinese dude in the article very much framed it in the context of an international genitalia measuring context.

"We should have at least as good a Navy as the rest of the Security Council" or something to that effect.
 
I reckon it could be a bad idea because it needlessly antagonises the US. In economic terms the US and China have a good relationship. They pay political lipservice to their respective ideologies, but everyone knows they're pretty tight because of the extensive economic ties.

Why should China start challenging the US militarily by building a dope navy when they have congruous economic interests?

How does this antagonize or challenge the U.S.?

The U.S. has 11 aircraft carriers. China is building 1 :lol: and it's based on an old soviet wreck at that
 
How does this antagonize or challenge the U.S.?

The U.S. has 11 aircraft carriers. China is building 1 :lol: and it's based on an old soviet wreck at that

You've got to start somewhere... like I said above, its the idea that counts.
 
You've got to start somewhere... like I said above, its the idea that counts.

Sure, but China isn't even an American enemy.. They're America's #2 trading partner.. and they're building some crappy aircraft carrier that doesn't even compare to what the Americans are upgrading their carriers to.

There's nothing to see here, really.
 
Sure, but China isn't even an American enemy.. They're America's #2 trading partner.. and they're building some crappy aircraft carrier that doesn't even compare to what the Americans are upgrading their carriers to.

There's nothing to see here, really.

I'm no historian, but wasn't Germany in a similar situation with Britain a bit over a century ago?
 
But it must be the military's worst-kept secret.

It's one of those case where you don't want anyone to know you're pursuing it for political reasons, but when you have it you want it to be known (at least unofficially) for deterrence.
Kind of like Israely nukes

I reckon it could be a bad idea because it needlessly antagonises the US.
BY this logic the USA needlessly antagonise the whole world, and they spend much more money on it. Money that istn't even there.

Why should China start challenging the US militarily by building a dope navy when they have congruous economic interests?

I don't think CHina really wants to challenge the USA globally. They just want to be able to keep the USA away from Chinese waters.
 
I'm no historian, but wasn't Germany in a similar situation with Britain a bit over a century ago?

*shrug* no idea!

China can't even compete with Italy when it comes to aircraft carriers though.. Italy! Those guys have 2 aircraft carriers. #2 after the U.S. in terms of how many carriers they have. Again, the U.S. has 9 more aircraft carriers than anyone else. :p

India is currently building 2 aircraft carriers. Are they antagonizing the U.S. too?
 
BY this logic the USA needlessly antagonise the whole world, and they spend much more money on it. Money that istn't even there.

Yes and I don't understand that either.

I don't think CHina really wants to challenge the USA globally. They just want to be able to keep the USA away from Chinese waters.

Thats where it starts. And what if the US wants to be Top Dog in East Asia? Which they almost certainly want to, because they're American.

*shrug* no idea!

China can't even compete with Italy when it comes to aircraft carriers though.. Italy! Those guys have 2 aircraft carriers. #2 after the U.S. in terms of how many carriers they have. Again, the U.S. has 9 more aircraft carriers than anyone else. :p

India is currently building 2 aircraft carriers. Are they antagonizing the U.S. too?

Well how long has Italy had two carriers? If China stops at two I'm proven wrong, but for now, we'll see.

It is a bit odd that they have two. I'd wager a lot they're small chickenfeces carriers.

India, yeah, they're probably making a move that antagonises the US. OR it could be a reaction to the the fact that China is looking to build a modern Navy.
 
To make sure I have this straight, it is big news that China has a not-quite-finished aircraft carrier with planes of dubious quality (didn't one of their propoganda films rip off Top Gun for footage?) with the hull salvaged from a thirty year old rusting russian hulk? And this is the best the makers of my new laptop and almost every other piece of advanced technology in my house can do?
 
OP said:
Reports claim it will be named the Shi Lang, after the Chinese admiral who conquered Taiwan in the 17th Century.
(…)
The aircraft carrier is part of China's fulfilment of its 2004 historic mission that the People's Liberation Army will increasingly defend the Communist Party's interests outside of China
A) Has anyone noticed this thinly veiled threat against Taiwan?
B) Communist Party's. Good. At least they have stopped pretending that they're the expression of the people and they sort of acknowledge that they are an oligarchy.
Sure, but China isn't even an American enemy.. They're America's #2 trading partner.. and they're building some crappy aircraft carrier that doesn't even compare to what the Americans are upgrading their carriers to.

There's nothing to see here, really.
Not even an enemy? The Chinese believe in a manifest destiny of their very own and they won't stop until they're #1. Everyone is a rival, sooner or later.
 
Shekwan, I just don't get this whole "OMG China is antagonizing/challenging the U.S." attitude whenever China releases some sort of military plan to build a ship, a new jet plane, or whatever.

This has nothing to do with the U.S. - and every country in the world is allowed to have their own military.

Takhisis said:
Not even an enemy? The Chinese believe in a manifest destiny of their very own and they won't stop until they're #1. Everyone is a rival, sooner or later.

How are they an enemy? If they were an enemy they wouldn't be one of America's biggest trading partners.

And what manifest destiny? China doesn't have any expansionist plans wants or needs.. Except for Taiwan, which this one crappy aircraft carrier won't affect a bit.
 
The real question is, do they have any good planes to fly off the thing? :p If all they have are jumpjets, they aren't really competitive.
 
Thats where it starts.
That sounds awfully like one of those slippery-slope pseudo-arguments I tend to ignore.

And what if the US wants to be Top Dog in East Asia? Which they almost certainly want to, because they're American.

They'll hiss and puff and eventuall come to the conclusion that the cold war is over, there's no us that need protecion from them any more and that the cost for all the carrier groups can't be justified.
 
How are they an enemy? If they were an enemy they wouldn't be one of America's biggest trading partners.

And what manifest destiny? China doesn't have any expansionist plans wants or needs.. Except for Taiwan, which this one crappy aircraft carrier won't affect a bit.
I said rival, not enemy. China wants to be top dog too. You can't have more than one of those.
 
I said rival, not enemy. China wants to be top dog too. You can't have more than one of those.

I don't see how 1 crappy aircraft carrier is a cause for concern.

edit: And aren't rivals good? You know.. free market and all :)
 
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