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China UHV, Regent/Normal SVN revision 986

Discussion in 'Gameplay Guides' started by Fresol, Aug 25, 2015.

  1. Fresol

    Fresol Angry Halfling in Green

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    It has been a while since I posted my last game(Congo). I still have a 983 Tibet game unposted but let it wait, because this China game is surely more important and more interesting to read.

    I don't know how often you guys try a China game, and what your game experiences are. I suspect people don't play China as often as the European powerhouses. But, a China game offers unique gaming experience -- you start as early as 3000 BC with the Egyptians and Babylonians and the last historical goal checks as late as 1800 AD(it's a "by" goal, though) -- and your empire can really grow STRONG while going after UHV.

    As a Chinese, I started out playing DoC with the Chinese civilization(uh-huh), and have witnessed the many nerfs that have happened to it since version 1.8.1.(Not trying to complain here, because I think the game is better balanced than before.) I've read 2 impressive Emperor/Normal China AARs, one with historical victory and the other with Confucianism religious victory, and both games were won before the 1200 AD mark(before Mongol spawn). I myself also have a 940 AD Monarch/Normal Domination victory posted somewhere in Jusos' Domination Challenge thread, back in version 1.9(I guess) when domination games were easier and popular.

    I've also noticed the lack of China UHV games posted in the UHV challenge thread, so you can say this China game is long due.

    This game was played under Regent/Normal setting, 3000 BC start, on SVN revision 986. I was trying Paragon for a while but Greece discovering Compass in 10 BC discouraged me. Yeah, I'll just stay with Regent and have more fun with it.

    Let's review the 3 historical goals for the Chinese:
    1. Mandate of Heaven: Build 2 Confucian Academies and 2 Taoist Pagodas by 1000 AD (Turn 221)
    2. The Four Great Inventions: Be first to discover Compass, Paper, Gunpowder and Printing Press
    3. Ten Thousand Years: Experience four golden ages by 1800 AD (turn 354)

    The first goal asks you to found Confucianism(Mathematics) and Taoism(Calendar) and spread them both to 8 of your cities. You also need Music to build the great temples. It kind of digresses you from your research for the second historical goal. But China has a UP that ignores all "tech spread" penalties before entering the Renaissance era(you can still get discounts from "tech spread"), which alleviates the research pressure. The downside of this UP is that you cannot trade away your technology until at least one other civilization knows it.

    For the second goal, one thing to watch out for is that surviving Greece has a unreasonably high tendency to research Compass very early.

    The third goal is a very relaxed one, there are a lot of ways to get golden ages and the time is abundant. Since there's a free golden age from the triumphal arch built at 2/3 UHV check, one only needs 3 more 8-turn golden ages, or 2 12-turn(MoM) ones. Great people, Olympic Park, and in this game the Versailles and possibly the Taj Mahal, random events(marathon, 7 amphitheatres with the unlikely SoZ), golden-age-anarchy-exploit(deliberately entering long anarchies during GAs) can all help with the goal.

    Let's see what will happen. If you can't see the image in the spoiler(I can't), just click on the smaller image outside the spoiler instead.
     
  2. Fresol

    Fresol Angry Halfling in Green

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    Spoiler :


    Spoiler :

    I really do not like this starting location.


    Spoiler :

    Luoyang on the plains hill is way more superior. We research Hunting(to build camp on the deer). There's no tech spread discount but on Regent we can self-research many spare techs. After Hunting research AH. Train 2 warriors, and use the 3 warriors to rush or at least harass Babylonia.


    Spoiler :


    Spoiler :

    I prefer to let the 2 new warriors travel together.


    Spoiler :

    Some S/L for hut money is recommended. You may not like it but it's important.


    Spoiler :

    Our worker is out. Let him improve the 2 wheats, pig, deer and build mines on the hills.


    Spoiler :

    We had discounts for AH because Babylonians already knew it. The same goes for The Wheel(allows roads to connect Zhongdu with Luoyang and GS bulbing Alphabet after Mathematics). We have met the Babylonians. See if they're weak in defence, and plan our next move.


    Spoiler :

    More hut gold.
     
  3. Fresol

    Fresol Angry Halfling in Green

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    Spoiler :

    We are lucky, not always can you capture a Babylonian worker for free.

    Also notice that both Babylonia and Egypt have The Wheel, which is why we receive the full 20% research discount.


    Spoiler :

    War and captured worker.


    Spoiler :

    Warrior go west for more huts.


    Spoiler :

    Luoyang starts training a settler at 5 pop. We are researching Writing.


    Spoiler :

    It's very important to reveal the coastline of Persia(trade routes).


    Spoiler :

    The two follow-up warriors keep harassing Babylon. Station one on the forest hill and maneuver the other one so that the pasture can never be built until Babylon has trained a third bowman. Keep Babylonia at bay and we'll get to build the Oracle for sure.


    Spoiler :

    Egypt has built the Hanging Gardens. Then we have a shot at the Pyramids. Both of them are very good for us, it's great to have either one.


    Spoiler :

    The worker doesn't have to reveal all coastline in India. He should head back to China quickly.
     
  4. Fresol

    Fresol Angry Halfling in Green

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    Spoiler :

    More than a hundred gold is quite enough, we don't need to be greedy.


    Spoiler :

    Now about city setup. This Shanghai is not my usual choice(1S on rice), but did you notice the 2 extra forests nearby? Those extra forests made me decide to try this new city placement. It frees up Fuzhou on the stone hill. Shanghai will build the Great Cothon to make up for the lost production from hills.

    Make sure to let the new cities work shared improved tiles for faster growth. Exchanging working tiles between neighboring cities is a common technique, especially when one of the cities had just hurried production with some of its population.


    Spoiler :

    Hut popping, mushroom picking.


    Spoiler :

    There's no research discount for Fishing or Writing.

    Our harassment has really disturbed the Babylonians.


    Spoiler :

    I waited until turn 51, but even the appearance of the Greeks(who know Writing) did not make researching Writing any cheaper. I want to build Taixue now, so anyways.

    One of the previous 3 scientist slots has been replaced by statesman slot, which is a clearly inferior specialist(only 2:commerce:).


    Spoiler :

    After training 2 settlers, Luoyang starts building a Taixue. Research is on Masonry, we have time to finish it any then move on to Mathematics.


    Spoiler :

    The sheep is still not improved, as is the stone. Very good, very good indeed.


    Spoiler :

    We found Beijing by the river. Notice the trade route. Our worker has built a road to connect Luoyang to the Yellow River.
     
  5. Fresol

    Fresol Angry Halfling in Green

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    Spoiler :

    Our hut popping activity in the West is near its end.


    Spoiler :

    Babylonia has 3 bowmen now, our warriors need to take defensive position. No more harrassment.


    Spoiler :

    But there's a indie worker to capture. How can we miss that chance?


    Spoiler :

    After building the Taixue, we hire scientists in Luoyang.


    Spoiler :

    The Greeks are at war with the Babylonians. Good thing.


    Spoiler :

    But Babylonia still manages to build the Great Sphynx. AIs have really good Wonder production discounts.


    Spoiler :

    This forest hill with river is a natural fortress.


    Spoiler :

    What is Pericles' plan?
     
  6. Fresol

    Fresol Angry Halfling in Green

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    Spoiler :

    Sailing is needed for tech trades with the West. But why so early? Because we need a galley to ferry settler.


    Spoiler :

    I waited until Masonry gets discount to finish researching it.


    Spoiler :

    Pillaging the pasture brings in gold, though few in number.


    Spoiler :

    I sent a scout to contact India. Making contacts and securing trade routes are important chores for ancient civs.


    Spoiler :

    Meeting Phoenicia.


    Spoiler :

    We found the city of Fuzhou on the stone hill. It's a bit too cramped up to be honest, but since we aim for a quick victory, closely placed cities are helpful in early game.


    Spoiler :

    Babylonia has collapsed! A rare sight.


    Spoiler :

    The Phoenician army is quite strong at the moment.
     
  7. Fresol

    Fresol Angry Halfling in Green

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    Spoiler :

    Connected trade route reveals the many technologies we wish to purchase.


    Spoiler :

    A galley is built in Shanghai, but our settler is not ready yet. Shanghai is so production-poor that it can only train settlers and workers effectively.


    Spoiler :

    Our great scientist Li Fan is born in Luoyang. Let him wait.


    Spoiler :

    2 turns later, Confucianism(Mathematics) is founded in Fuzhou.


    Spoiler :

    Let the religion spread on itself, and don't convert until the settler is out.


    Spoiler :

    Now we can let Li Fan research Alphabet for us.


    Spoiler :

    Asoka for some reason is holding back his techs from us.


    Spoiler :

    We have to trade with Pericles instead. Research Mysticism on ourselves and buy Polytheism from the Greeks.
     
  8. Fresol

    Fresol Angry Halfling in Green

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    Spoiler :

    Obviously acquiring all those techs has triggered a moderate dometic crisis which leads to civil wars(in fact it does nothing more than 1 turn of chaos in all cities). Changing civics perfectly negates this effect. We'll experience half a dozen more "civil wars" in this game, and most them do nothing at all.

    My stability isn't that bad either, it's like -4 or something.


    Spoiler :

    Now this may look new to you. Ever since the map adjustment near Nagasaki I've considered this spot(ÁðÇò) to be a excellent location for a city. Two clams, a pearl and a gold, what else can you ask for? The Great Cothon? That'll be great, but it's hard to pull off. I plan to build it in Shanghai remember? But the Colossus surely can help Naha a lot.


    Spoiler :

    Change civics. We need forced labor and patheon wonders.


    Spoiler :

    Chop trees in Luoyang, our first wonder there is the Pyramids. It's a very useful wonder to us. Improved worker efficiency and less angry faces from forced labor are both appealing features.


    Spoiler :

    Our first work boat improves the pearls, to alleviate the unhappiness problem in our cities.


    Spoiler :

    We can't get Priesthood from trade, so we research it ourselves.


    Spoiler :

    On turn 86 we have finished researching Priesthood. Luoyang starts building the Oracle and workers continue to chop trees around the city. The forests are best used for hurrying wonders, leave only the forest on the non-riverside grassland hill to provide +1:health: together with the forested deer tile.

    Our warrior in Sur makes contact with the Persians in Jerusalem. It's strange to see Persia at war only with India.


    Spoiler :


    Spoiler :

    Two chopped forests and production overflow from building the Pyramids have helped us finish the Oracle in one turn. We choose Metal Casting as the free tech. It's the best choice for tech trades(Romans will have it so trading will be possible, and the large :science:), also forges and the Colossus are all very important buildings/wonder.
     
  9. Fresol

    Fresol Angry Halfling in Green

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    Spoiler :

    Typically for any non-respawned civ, tech trades are made possible 3 turns after spawn. I think we are lucky to be able to get Monarchy with only Alphabet and Agriculture(revealing the coastline of Persia was very important, remember?), but even without this luck, Metal Casting(after Turn 90, the Roman spawn) will be enough be buy us Monarchy. The only problem is not to make Cyrus too angry about us.


    Spoiler :

    We meet Ramesses II of Egypt. Under Regent difficulty Egypt usually accomplishes nothing, a OB agreement later can boost our trade route income.


    Spoiler :

    Forge is hurried in Luoyang. Early forges make our whipping 25% more efficient, and I strongly recommend using the forge+Organized Religion combo as China, the 120% building cost modifier is just painful otherwise.


    Spoiler :

    Luck is on our side, culture expasion of Naha nets us 103 gold from the goody hut. I've tried to build the Great Cothon in Naha(there are 2 forests to chop) several times without success, so I have abandoned the idea. Still, it's a terrific city with the +1:commerce: from the Colossus.

    Meanwhile, 2 workers chop forests near Shanghai to hurry the Great Cothon.


    Spoiler :

    Good news, the Greeks just built the Temple of Artemis in Athenai, the Great Cothon is ours.


    Spoiler :

    Shanghai finishes the Great Cothon on turn 92.


    Spoiler :

    We meet Julius Caesar of Rome. Gift him Agriculture and open border.
     
  10. Fresol

    Fresol Angry Halfling in Green

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    Spoiler :

    Asoka is a devoted Buddhist and sending missionaries into our land. I choose to cancel the OB agreement to stop this infiltration of religion. I have no plan to build any Buddhist wonders and the extra unhappiness and instability this early is troublesome.


    Spoiler :

    Luoyang finishes the Ishtar Gate on turn 95. There was nothing better to build, and the :gpp: is helpful.


    Spoiler :

    I'm hurry the settler training in Fuzhou, because we need to found Haojing to reach the copper. Without axemen we'll be screwed by the Tibetan swordsmen later.


    Spoiler :

    On turn 97 we acquire Calendar through research, and Taoism is founded in Shanghai. I have a feeling that Fuzhou were going to be the holy city if I had not sacrificed its two pops.


    Spoiler :

    A worker is a better scout than a actual scout.


    Spoiler :

    We found the city of Haojing. Without Fuzhou it can only grow slowly because there's no improved food tile in its first ring, but now Haojing can work the improved rice covered by Fuzhou's culture right from the beginning.

    The cities are cramped up but it's actually an advantage in early game.


    Spoiler :

    Luoyang trains a chariot to defend the north. But on Regent there are not many barb warriors to kill.

    Meanwhile, we need a lot more workers to improve the calendar resources. They are vital to our economy.


    Spoiler :

    Oh shoot. We just missed a free scientist and 3:health:! But it's OK, Haojing won't grow too big anyways.
     
  11. Fresol

    Fresol Angry Halfling in Green

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    Spoiler :

    The Great Lighthouse is built in Byzantion.


    Spoiler :

    A single worker slowly(the Pyramids gives an extra 25% worker efficiency so not that slowly) improves the gold and starts to build a fort. We'll enjoy the gold resource in our cities after the fort is built.


    Spoiler :

    An immediate +73:science: is much better than -73:gold: and +1:science: each turn.


    Spoiler :

    Oh Construction! It's only turn 111, our economy seems to be really good this game.


    Spoiler :

    On turn 112 the gold mine is connected to our cities. And Naha is already shaping up to be a good city.

    I used to spam coastal cities and build the Great Lighthouse and bulb Currency with the Oracle. That strategy was accompanied by settling directly on the gems hill in India, and the gold and silver in Japan. But settling on resources no longer provides full hammer and commerce bonus and settler cost for China is higher now, so this old strategy has gone obsolete. The Great Lighthouse also expires with Compass instead of Economics which is way earlier(the reduced number of extra trade routes was not critical).


    Spoiler :

    Luoyang can afford to build the Colosseum even without marble. But making it the military unit production center is in a way contradictory to its role as the economic center of the emipre, especially after when the Great Canal is available.


    Spoiler :

    Our international squad is helping build roads from Egypt to Ethiopia.


    Spoiler :

    After the copper near Haojing is connected, Shanghai quickly finishes the Colossus with help of chopped forests. Build a harbor there and Shanghai is ready to take off.
     
  12. Fresol

    Fresol Angry Halfling in Green

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    Spoiler :

    I don't know why, but immediately after building the Colossus, everyone is willing to sell Iron Working to me. What is making them hold back Iron Working for all this time?


    Spoiler :

    Carthage is irrelevant, I'll trade with them.


    Spoiler :

    Persia has built the Adur Farnbag.


    Spoiler :

    We face negative domestic stability almost all game...

    The (moderate domestic) crisis has nearly no effect though.


    Spoiler :


    Spoiler :

    Alexander has begun his conquest.


    Spoiler :


    Spoiler :

    Only with the Pyramids dare I sacrifice 5 population to hurry up the Colosseum.
     
  13. Fresol

    Fresol Angry Halfling in Green

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    Spoiler :

    We adopt the Dynasticism+Organized Religion civics immediately after finishing the pantheon wonder.


    Spoiler :

    Confucianism will be our state religion. The 25%:hammers: from OR will be very helpful in developing the cities.


    Spoiler :

    We meed Zara Yaqob of Ethiopia.


    Spoiler :

    Asoka is willing to teach us YogaMeditation.


    Spoiler :

    The Great Library is built in Athenai. If this were Paragon difficulty Greece would become a unstoppable tech monster.


    Spoiler :

    Hurrying production with 2 population is a common technique.


    Spoiler :

    Have spearmen ready around turn 120+. Axemen are also required to deal with the upcoming Tibetan swordsmen.


    Spoiler :

    On turn 123 Rome declares war on Carthage.
     
  14. Fresol

    Fresol Angry Halfling in Green

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    Spoiler :

    Luoyang finishes the Terracotta Army. It gives +25%:hammers: unit production and allows gaining GG points and infinite experience from fighting barbarians.


    Spoiler :

    On the same turn great engineer Leizu is born in Luoyang.


    Spoiler :

    Indonesian villagers teach us to use currency?


    Spoiler :

    Nah, I only need them to pay some tribute.


    Spoiler :

    With Carthage defeated, the victorious Romans converted to Zoroastrianism. The hell?


    Spoiler :

    So the Zoroastrian God has decided to strike down the heretic Greeks.


    Spoiler :

    The hut gold is really not important. The quick saving is a habit.


    Spoiler :

    Catholicism is founded in Fuzhou. When playing on Regent or Monarch, it's advisable to found Catholicism as the Chinese. The Catholic wonders are just too good to give up.
     
  15. Fresol

    Fresol Angry Halfling in Green

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    Spoiler :

    On the same turn, Beijing builds the Great Wall. It's now much easier to kill the invading barbarians.


    Spoiler :

    Our scout keeps exploring Australia.


    Spoiler :

    Axemen do not have guaranteed victory against swordsmen, especially in attacks. It's better to defend instead.


    Spoiler :

    With Cho-Ko-Nu we are able to take and demolish Simiyan Hoton.


    Spoiler :

    Again our civilization descends into a period of civil war, i.e. nothing happens.


    Spoiler :

    We found Hanoi. It's a good city even with all the rainforests and marshes. The abundant food resources(crab, pig, banana) make it desirable for ancient civs like China(terrible growth modifier), the crab provides extra health, and the ivory extra happiness. It has adequate production capacity too.


    Spoiler :

    Ethiopia invading Egypt? Doesn't seem like it'll actually happen.


    Spoiler :

    We have lost 2 spearmen to the Xiongnu horse archers. But in general spearmen are enough to deal with them inside the Great Wall.
     
  16. Fresol

    Fresol Angry Halfling in Green

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    Spoiler :

    Finally the Koreans have appeared. They flip the Sanshan area so don't settle city there too early.


    Spoiler :

    They have quite a few useful technologies to steal, so direct all espionage points against them.


    Spoiler :

    A great mediator has successfully brokered peace between Egypt and Greece. I remember one time(quite some versions ago) I had this event with the natives as Ethiopia.


    Spoiler :

    Currency, Code of Laws, Horseback Riding, Aesthetics.


    Spoiler :

    We buy marble from Rome. The nearest marble is near the Indus river and too far away from us.


    Spoiler :

    The reason we rushed for Machinery is the this beautiful wonder that suits Luoyang perfectly.


    Spoiler :

    Egypt has collapsed as Roman legions demolishes the city of Abydos and captures Alexandreia. Interesting, Alexander never lay his hands on that city.


    Spoiler :

    Finally we get around to prepare for our espionage missions.
     
  17. Fresol

    Fresol Angry Halfling in Green

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    Spoiler :

    Natural disaster in Hanoi.


    Spoiler :

    We found Sanshan, it shares a lot of tiles with Hancheng.


    Spoiler :

    Finally we get to contact Rajendra Chola of Tamils.


    Spoiler :

    Don't worry, our workers are nearby.


    Spoiler :

    The Grand Canal has no movie or picture, a shame. But its effect is phenomenal.


    Spoiler :

    Our first great general Sun Tzu is born in Luoyang.


    Spoiler :

    The Statue of Zeus is built in Byzantion. I think the SoZ is a very powerful wonder for the warlike civilizations, but it expires too early, and pagan temples get destroyed by religions(except UB replacements).


    Spoiler :

    After a few turns of preparation, the spread of Confucianism into Hancheng raises the curtain for Korea's downfall(terrible English here).
     
  18. Fresol

    Fresol Angry Halfling in Green

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    Spoiler :


    Spoiler :


    Spoiler :

    The tech stealing has begun.


    Spoiler :

    The Greeks have built the Parthenon, they survived the Romans by becoming their vassal.


    Spoiler :

    After stealing the last tech HBR, the war against Korean will begin.


    Spoiler :

    Descending into civil war at -1 stability. Geez.


    Spoiler :

    I did a reload around this time. Not because of the war, but because the Greeks are close to discover Compass. There's little reason for them to do so, and I believe it may have something to do with their leader AI and their old circumnavigation historical goal. Anyways I had to go full research on Compass to not fail our 2nd UHV goal.


    Spoiler :

    The Roman civilization has collapsed because of instability. It's curious why Athenai didn't return to Greek control.
     
  19. Fresol

    Fresol Angry Halfling in Green

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    Spoiler :

    I can't persuade Alexander to change civics, so I choose to find him something else to do. In retrospect gifting him a tech and maybe he'll get pleased enough to listen to us?


    Spoiler :

    Our general Sun Tzu becomes a great medic.


    Spoiler :

    Wang Kon insisted on leaving his crossbowman and other armies outside the city, therefore I can take Hancheng with ease. Korea is no more.

    I originally planned to make Hancheng, Jingdu and Jianghu great people farms, but our game is too fast-paced and only Luoyang and Shanghai are able to produce any great people.


    Spoiler :

    With rome gone our only possible source of marble is from Greece(or a strong Persia, in this case it's not).


    Spoiler :

    We discover Compass on turn 156, 230 AD.


    Spoiler :

    You can see Greece discovers Compass on the same turn. It was so close.

    Any trade connection to the West is lost for now.


    Spoiler :

    I re-opened border with India.


    Spoiler :

    It's 260 AD and Persians don't know Calendar? Then I better teach it to them so they can build the MoM. The trade route is re-connected.
     
  20. Fresol

    Fresol Angry Halfling in Green

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    Spoiler :

    Our second great people is also a great engineer. This time it's Cai Lun. Will he invent Paper for us? Probably not.


    Spoiler :

    Buying gems from India.


    Spoiler :

    AIs are teching too slowly on Regent, we sell outdated techs for :gold:.


    Spoiler :

    A single war elephant is enough to burn down undefended Pagan.


    Spoiler :

    Engineering unlocks Notre Dame, we really need the 2 extra happiness from it because of all the religions and crowded cities. We need marble to build it.


    Spoiler :

    Converting to Catholicism is a first step. Beijing starts building the Apostolic Palace.


    Spoiler :

    The Mausoleum of Maussollos is built in Shush, a bit too far away from us.

    Also the plague has begun.


    Spoiler :

    It's time to build lighthouses in coastal cities and smokehouses in inland ones.
     

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