1. Firaxis celebrates the "Asian American and Pacific Islander Heritage Month", and offers a give-away of a Civ6 anthology copy (5 in total)! For all the details, please check the thread here. .
    Dismiss Notice

China, wrong special abilities.

Discussion in 'Civ3 - General Discussions' started by scotland_no1, May 20, 2003.

  1. scotland_no1

    scotland_no1 Jimmy Hat Salesman

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2003
    Messages:
    336
    Location:
    Edinburgh, Scotland
    i was thinking about the abilities for china. i think it has the wrong ones. if abilities are top be taken form thier height of power then shouldnt china be commercial industrious.

    post here and say what u think. bring up other civs that u think have wrong abilities...like japan
     
  2. morkaphi

    morkaphi More Coffee

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2002
    Messages:
    478
    Uh, China is Militaristic and Industrious, not Commercial.
     
  3. farting bob

    farting bob ThEy MaDe Me Do iT.

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2002
    Messages:
    3,169
    Location:
    UK (sussex)
    he is suggesting that they should be commercial and industious......
    and i dont know much about chinas history, but i feel that they are more relgious than militartictic, but i could be wrong.
     
  4. Ultraworld

    Ultraworld Emperor

    Joined:
    May 2, 2003
    Messages:
    1,156
    I would say scientific and . . . . hmm . . . . and . . . . dont know
     
  5. DaveMcW

    DaveMcW Deity

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2002
    Messages:
    6,489
    They needed a militaristic/industrious civ, and China got the short straw. ;)
     
  6. lordex

    lordex Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2003
    Messages:
    54
    Location:
    Herndon, VA, US
    They should have some trait like "agricultural" which gives perhaps a free granary for the capital (might be too big an edge :) ). Then China would be agricultural and militaristic.
     
  7. mrtn

    mrtn Shaven not stirred

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2002
    Messages:
    8,635
    Location:
    Stockholm
    In my mod it's scientific and industrious.
     
  8. Mongoloid Cow

    Mongoloid Cow Great Khan

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2001
    Messages:
    2,816
    Location:
    Adelaide, Australia
    IIRC, they got those traits so the Great Wall will give them a Golden Age.
     
  9. Zi-yu

    Zi-yu Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2003
    Messages:
    22
    Location:
    Hawaii
    What is wrong with Industrious & Militaristic? The Chinese empire was built by war and the industry of (basically) slave labor. The Great Wall is an example of both a Militaristic and Industrious society. True, they were very technologically advanced, were a commercial power, and somewhat religious, but you can only have two attributes, right?
     
  10. shu2

    shu2 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2003
    Messages:
    32
    Location:
    in the crap shack that is my head..
    actually, if you think about it, its impossible to be that exact. i think militaristic suits china. they did wage war for about 2000 years. scientific doesnt really fit cuz china closed off its borders. religious is a def but again, it isnt possible to be so exact.
    Im chinese so i would know.
     
  11. theGhost

    theGhost Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2003
    Messages:
    45
    its hard to say,
    China did have a lot of wars, so militaristic
    China invented a lot of tech, like compass, paper, etc., so scientific
    just look at the Great Wall, so industrious
    but that should be it......China wasnt very commercial, religious, but some might question expansionist.....especially with what was reported that China discovered America first....so its up in the air.
    but definitely militaristic, industrious, and scientific......
     
  12. Raidne

    Raidne Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 10, 2003
    Messages:
    42
    Well, China should not be religious, that is for sure. There are two religions in China, Taoism is a native erligion that exists from 124AD and imported Buddism from India around 2nd or 3rd Century AD. Typically Chinese do not treat religion that seriously, since both Taoism and Buddism adopt the attitudes that one can believe or disbilieve in gods, and that all gods are the same, no matter what religion they come from. Therefore religion remain a less important part in the social, political life of the Chinese people. Firaxis had this right about China.

    Whether the Chinese is militaristic is a question. Throughout the history, none of the surrounding countries of the Chinese empire ever reached a point that they can fully dominate it. The mongol were strong militarily, but they employed the Chinese sword makers to supply arms to their armies. The Japanese did become more technologically advanced, but they still could not fully conquer China in the Second World War. The emporers in China believed that as the sons of heaven, they are to be worshiped by all kingdoms in the World, and so did the surrounding countries for a long long period. Therefore, the Chinese empire was not very seriously about its military, because however feeble it is (and for many many times, it is weak on per capita bases), no one dare to test its muscle (the mongol did). In the government, generals are always ranked lower than statesmen. The peace in China was particularly long that its military was grossly untrained and ill equiped when war broke out. Peace lasted 400 years (some interruption in the middle 200) for the Han dynasty, followed by several hundred years of war, and prosperity lasted 200 years in the Tang dynasty, and both Ming and Qing enjoyed more than 200 years of peace. There were, indeed, many famous generals in the Chinese history, but China's government always consider it more preferrable to manage its people than to conquer others. Therefore I really doubt whether Chinese is militaristic.

    There is no doubt that the Chinese is industrialist, like the Americans.

    I bilieve that China is very scientific. For centuries, they had a technological lead of the world, until the English discovered industrialization and Euro start to surpass the eastern empires. China discovered iron the earliest and in 1400AD, produced around 125000 tons of iron per year for the government and military. By that time, China had already sailed to Africa, with several hundred ships led by the famous Cheng Ho. The navy had more than a thousand combat ships and long range cruisers. China also had national universities called Tai Xue, whose graduates were the emporer's students, in 200AD in the empire of Han. They also claimed to have discovered magnatism, as the earliest record of compass appeared in 3rd Century BC, paper 200AD, gunpowder with the earliest cannon in 1332AD and printing in 5th Century AD, letter press printing 11 century AD. Until the Ming dynasty, only the ottoman surpass China in one area, medicine (Paul Kennedy). Therefore the Chinese is scientific.

    As to whether the chinese are commercial, one must take a closer look. The chinese are commercial as during the Tang and Sung dynasty, Canton, Hangchow and Yangchow are the largest ports and commercial centres of Asia. There were records of wealthy persians and arabs living there and supplying mid-east horses to the emporer, and traded silk and incense. However, officially the Chinese government ranked businessmen the lowest in society, who must bear the heaviest of tax. In the Ming dynasty, the emporer expressly closed down most trading ports but leaving only Canton, which remain the only place overseas business can enter until late Qing. Nevertheless, trading never ceased in China and businessmen usually ended up the wealthiest second to senior bureaucrats. Therefore, one may or may not classify the Chinese as commercial people.
     
  13. Knight-Dragon

    Knight-Dragon Unhidden Dragon Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2001
    Messages:
    19,963
    Location:
    Singapore
    China has had a very long history, and exhibits all of the Civ3 attributes at different times, sometimes even within the same dynasties.

    Like the Qin, Han, Sui, Tang, early Qing were expansionist and militaristic. The Zhou, Shang were religious. The Song were commercial, industrious. Modern China is industrious. And so on...

    I've made this point a few times before.

    Since we can only pick two, well...
     
  14. Student Driver

    Student Driver Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2003
    Messages:
    64
    Right XIII.
     
  15. wilbill

    wilbill That Old Time Religion

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2002
    Messages:
    2,513
    Location:
    North Carolina
    Most of the civilizations are hard to characterize with only two traits. I think militaristic/industrious is a reasonable combination for China. But then lots of other combinations would be good, too. Gamewise, I think it's a good combination.
     
  16. shu2

    shu2 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2003
    Messages:
    32
    Location:
    in the crap shack that is my head..
    thank you wilbill
    thats what ive been trying to say
     
  17. Communist Rebel

    Communist Rebel Fighting Against Poverty

    Joined:
    May 21, 2003
    Messages:
    40
    Location:
    Cuba
    i was also thinking about japan.. theyre traits are ok for that period in time. but i would prefer so much to have the modern traits of japan. who do you think..scientific being the most advanced nation in the world. and commercial, having the second largest econommy in the world. (even if it is stagnant at the moment)
     
  18. Blasphemous

    Blasphemous Graulich

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2002
    Messages:
    3,079
    Location:
    Jerusalem, Israel
    Do you truly see the late 20th and early 21st centuries as Japan's Golden Age?
    The way the game is designed is that every civ is represented through Leader, UU, and Traits, as it was in its height of power and culture, which is the civ's Golden Age.
    I think the way Japan was designed in the game is A-Okay. That may be why I play them alot. :)
     
  19. shu2

    shu2 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2003
    Messages:
    32
    Location:
    in the crap shack that is my head..
    Japan i fine
    if you were to have a modern day japan it would be under american occupation and would have no army what so ever...
    yea, that wont work for us war mongers
     
  20. Communist Rebel

    Communist Rebel Fighting Against Poverty

    Joined:
    May 21, 2003
    Messages:
    40
    Location:
    Cuba
    hehe i supose ure right.. but japan isnt under american occpation. and it buys more arms than any other country. and the japansese navy works with the australian and US navies in an ocean patrol.. so japan still does have an army although it may not be as big.
     

Share This Page