China's UHV is too luck-based

Uncle Paul

Bittereinder
Joined
Aug 6, 2022
Messages
491
Location
Die Ou Transvaal
I was playing China on the easiest difficulty and the slowest speed, and I failed goal #2 in 848 AD. I know that one RFC mod (not sure if it's this one or SOI) has code in it that prevents wonders that are needed for a UHV from being built too early. Could you maybe repurpose that code to prevent the four techs China needs for UHV#2 from being discovered too early? Even if I didn't build all 8 cities that are necessary for UHV#1, I have no way of knowing which civs are close to those 4 technologies, and thus, which one I should focus on first.
 

Leoreth

Blue Period
Moderator
Joined
Aug 23, 2009
Messages
36,259
Location
東京藝術大学
I disagree with your characterisation of the Chinese UHV.
 

Uncle Paul

Bittereinder
Joined
Aug 6, 2022
Messages
491
Location
Die Ou Transvaal
I disagree with your characterisation of the Chinese UHV.
Do you have any advice? I've tried several Chinese games, all on the lowest difficulty level, and every time, I wind up getting beaten to one of the techs for UHV 2.
 

Dracosolon

Prince
Joined
Aug 21, 2010
Messages
338
Location
France
Have you checked the Gameplay Guides subforum? There's a China guide right over there.

I agree though that China has a particularly ambitious UHV that pulls you in every direction (though you have a lot of time and space to accomplish it!) and that AI-dependant goals like "discover multiple techs first" can be frustrating. Are you more at ease with the UHVs of other civs?
 

Dannimal

Chieftain
Joined
Feb 8, 2021
Messages
86
The only part of China that is too luck based is how Confucianism mostly founded based on other civs discovering contract. Barbarian incursions are supposed to be luck based and quite historical.

I'm actually getting fond of settling Chang'an as (historical) capital. I just wished that the spawn point would be one tile lower so Chang'an spawns on a river tile. The extra redistribution food provides more working mines which is awesome.
 

Matara

Chieftain
Joined
Nov 27, 2021
Messages
79
If you have little experience on DoC I don't suggest you play China. China has the longest UHV in DoC and requires a "general" knowledge of the game. For example, you need to select your 8 cities at first and produce settlers in early game. Then you will have enough time to spread religion and build temples. Then which plot to choose? It depends your own understanding and experience of the game.
I agree to you that the tech UHV is the most difficult. But it still depends on your experience, doesn't it? If you play more times, you will know that almost every European civ is beelining Compass, then Gunpowder, then Paper and Printing, while most non-European civ prefers Paper and Printing more than Gunpowder. So your focus may be Compass-Paper-Gunpowder-Printing. You'll also know that Byzantine and Arabia will be your greatest competitor in almost every game, which will get Compass in around 600-800AD. You have several strategies to win the tech race, like (1)build a cottage economy to support research; (2)build a specialist economy to bulb tech; (3)build a spy economy to steal tech; (4)send armies to pillage Byzantine and Arabia; (5)overexpand to India for more good cities.
To conclude, China's UHV is a general examination on your knowledge of DoC. Also it may be the least lucky-depend UHV in the whole game. It doesn't depend on any single choices of you, or AI. It depends on your long-term strategies.
 
Last edited:

Dracosolon

Prince
Joined
Aug 21, 2010
Messages
338
Location
France
I think a critical aspect that can trip you up is the timing of your Settlers. Personally I'm always tempted to send them pretty early to be ready for the Cathedrals UHV + get a big Great Wall + secure happiness resources, but that's the worst thing you can do to your economy at a time where your research needs to be performant enough for the tech UHV.
 

Matara

Chieftain
Joined
Nov 27, 2021
Messages
79
Here's my strategy of 8 cities :
1.Luoyang, on the plain hill, initial city. - Very strong city with Regulated Trade and Grand Canal, which should be built ASAP.
2.Beijing, 1W of fish, 1000BC. - For building troops. 2W of the fish is OK as well if you want the incense.
3.Wuhan, 1S of deer, 800BC. - For acquiring tea and dye. With only 3 cities your maintainance won't be high, so settle them ASAP.
4.Guiyang, between the two mountains, 400BC. - For acquiring gold and building troops. This city is productive but lack food. Dujiangyan is built here.
5.Haojing, west of pearl river delta, 200BC. - For hiring specialists. Rich food but less productive.
6.Hangzhou, 1NE of stone, 200BC. - For hiring specialists. Rich food but less productive.
7.Qingdao, 2E of Luoyang silk, 0AD. - Can support your core population if you grab Korea's fish.
8.Shenyang, 1N of wheat, 0AD. - Another way to expand into this area is to capture Barbarian Simiyan Hoton. Both are OK.
Your ideas may be different from mine - That's OK. There have been many different ideas of the 8 cities, all having their reasons and being suitable for their UHV strategy. But the general idea is that you should settle one more city if there're enough workers to improve these plots.
 
Last edited:

xijinping

Chieftain
Joined
Aug 17, 2022
Messages
12
Location
Montréal
in Assets/Python/Civilizations.py you will see ( and be able to adjust accordingly by your preference) each civ's likelyhood to research. The most important civs that affects your victory is those start around AD600. I don't think the weights here are linear, aka 60 weights doesnt mean 2x the probability of 30 weights, and since I cant find the code that controls RNG mechanism I cant verify it. But knowing the nominal weights should help you with understanding the overall probability map.
 

Uncle Paul

Bittereinder
Joined
Aug 6, 2022
Messages
491
Location
Die Ou Transvaal
Here's my strategy of 8 cities :
1.Luoyang, on the plain hill, initial city. - Very strong city with Regulated Trade and Grand Canal, which should be built ASAP.
2.Beijing, 1W of fish, 1000BC. - For building troops. 2W of the fish is OK as well if you want the incense.
3.Wuhan, 1S of deer, 800BC. - For acquiring tea and dye. With only 3 cities your maintainance won't be high, so settle them ASAP.
4.Guiyang, between the two mountains, 400BC. - For acquiring gold and building troops. This city is productive but lack food. Dujiangyan is built here.
5.Haojing, west of pearl river delta, 200BC. - For hiring specialists. Rich food but less productive.
6.Hangzhou, 1NE of stone, 200BC. - For hiring specialists. Rich food but less productive.
7.Qingdao, 2E of Luoyang silk, 0AD. - Can support your core population if you grab Korea's fish.
8.Shenyang, 1N of wheat, 0AD. - Another way to expand into this area is to capture Barbarian Simiyan Hoton. Both are OK.
Your ideas may be different from mine - That's OK. There have been many different ideas of the 8 cities, all having their reasons and being suitable for their UHV strategy. But the general idea is that you should settle one more city if there're enough workers to improve these plots.
I always build "Chang'an", since it is the default capital, and I try to play historically. Other cities are Beijing (north of the suggested location to reduce overlap with Chang'an), Shanghai, Guangzhou, Chengdu, Kunming, Shenyang, Taipei.
 

Dracosolon

Prince
Joined
Aug 21, 2010
Messages
338
Location
France
I used to crowd my cities more but now I'm trying for minimal overlap:

-Chang'an 1SE of the starting position: Almost as good as Luoyang, can work the Pig and the Iron, Dujangyan compensates for the many hills.
-Zhongdu/Beijing 2W of the Fish: Another good city, some culture buildings for the Great Wall then troops.
-Qiqihaer on the Manchurian hill 1E of the Horse: Mostly for the Fur. Founded early for Great Wall culture.
-Chittagong 1SW of the Indochina Gold: Usually founded early enough for some Great Wall culture. If I'm feeling adventurous I can found it 1W on the hill separating you from India for a potential invasion down the line - though that means barbarian waves can come too. It's not in Taoism's territory so a switch of state religion is required.
Post Great Wall (which I complete on the same turn I conquer and raze Simyan Hoton, to connect Qiqihaer):
-Haojing 1E of the southern Copper, Shanghai 1E of the eastern Dye: Nothing much to say, good cities. Shanghai grows fast enough that happiness is a regular concern.
-Taibei on the Taiwan plain: Can claim three sea resources plus the continental Rice and Sugar. Production can be a problem so a Forge is helpful if I have time before the temples.
-Manila in the center of the Philippines: You can potentially found Islam there for the Taj Mahal in the late game (or in Chittagong if on the Indian hill). Spain has a Trading Company conqueror event there so it needs some defense.

That's eight cities with very little overlap and every resource in China workable (except for the SE Stone and the Wheat between China and Korea). Conquering Korea can let you replace one or two of them (between Qiqihaer, Chittagong and Manila).
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom